Can a woman beat a man in swimming?

D'OH! ;)

Sure, I remember when I was young and I couldn't beat some of the girls on my age group team and I wasn't a B and C time swimmer either. These girls were pretty talented.

Come on, you can go to any Masters Meet and see younger women beating older men. Sometimes you see older women beating younger men. The egalitarian attitude is one of the great things about swimming. If I had my way colleges wouldn't have mens and womens teams just swim teams with mixed relays at every meet. I really want mixed relays at the Olympics and Worlds!

"With the posting of that photo.... I feel this thread is rather deteriorating quickly." Glad to see you taking the high road with this thread.

Interesting that this is the thread that John started after the last one, since I think this is the reason that boys swimming (you will see in a moment why I call it 'boys' swimming) is in trouble. Society did (does) not have gender-typed occupations and sports to protect the women. Instead, it was to protect the fragile male ego. Bluntly, boys do not like to be shown up by girls. In fact, they do not even want to participate in something where girls even have the possibility of being equal or better. In fact, boys will actively *not* participate in activities that have girls as equals. There is a long history of this. Look at many formerly boy-dominated occupations, such as nursing, secretarial, or elementary school teaching. Women start to participate, they are good, and the boys leave. Notice that the occupations I listed now have the presumption, by boys, as 'gay.' Not only won't they compete, but it is not 'manly' to compete. The same thing is happening in swimming, which, as Allen says, is an extremely egalitarian sport. Boys and girls participate in the same meets, practice in the same pools, swim the same events, and practice the same sets. Boys know that there are girls out there that are faster than they are, and by some Freudian trickery know that only 'fags' would swim. I saw it back in the seventies as women became more integrated into the sport, I saw it in the hostility toward the women's team in my college, and I see it in my son's high school. Skimpy swim suits just provide an excuse. I'm happy to swim with men that don't mind if a woman leads the lane -- I think masters swimmers are more mature than most athletes. I remember a comment from a sports psychologist -- swimming takes its women swimmers more seriously as athletes than other sports, such as basketball, cycling, or track. However, you want controversial? Don't try to change male nature. Instead, separate the workouts, separate the meets, create different strokes and different events, and *then* you might save boys swimming.

Phil, Dude...... your over thinking this one by a mile. John Smith

Originally posted by seltzer I wouldn't cite "homophobia" but there is evidence that boy do feel more comfortable in jammers versus "speedos". In New England, boy participation in HS swim meet increased with the popularity of jammers. When I spoke to several people involved in MA high school swimming they confirmed their belief that jammers made swimming more "comfortable" for boys. Nicely stated and I concur. My daughter's team doesn't even offer speedo briefs for the boys, it's all jammers. Some of the high school "ringers" will show up for a summer league meet in the traditional speedo but them promptly put a pair of baggies on after the heat.

Originally posted by seltzer Finally, it is true that in smaller meets with younger kids far more girls than boys. One other reason, in my opinion, is that boys mature much later than girls and are really not ready to compete at younger ages. Summer rec leagues or some other kind of water activities are probably more appropriate for most boys until they get older (11?). I don't think this is the reason. I think boys and girls are equally "ready" to compete at young ages. I would postulate that more girls drop out of the sport than boys when they hit their teenage years and that's why there are comparitively more girls than boys in the lower age groups.

Originally posted by aquageek In another thread someone said boys swimming is declining because of homophobia about wearing speedos yet provided no proof of this assertion. I wouldn't cite "homophobia" but there is evidence that boy do feel more comfortable in jammers versus "speedos". In New England, boy participation in HS swim meet increased with the popularity of jammers. When I spoke to several people involved in MA high school swimming they confirmed their belief that jammers made swimming more "comfortable" for boys. On an different tangent...at the 2005 NE LCM Open we had more heats of boys versus girls for most events. Most of the swimmers were 15+ but we did also have a fair number of 13-14 years old (and 1 12 year old girl who did a 2:16 for a 200 meter back!). Finally, it is true that in smaller meets with younger kids far more girls than boys. One other reason, in my opinion, is that boys mature much later than girls and are really not ready to compete at younger ages. Summer rec leagues or some other kind of water activities are probably more appropriate for most boys until they get older (11?).

It takes a real man to wear a pink speedo. Even a powder-blue one.