There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Former Member
Leslie- the rest of us take precautions (hepa filter mask, rubber gloves, plenty of bleach) when sharing a forum with the Geek. The Smiths have plans to take more drastic measures. We may have to declare North Carolina an outlaw state for giving him safe haven (sorry Gull). Canada has already declared him an undesirable foreign national intent on internet pyromania.
And there are no national boundaries on this forum, which I think is pretty cool too.
It remains my mission to implement a northern border limitation on this forum.
Totally agree with Aquageek on this particular issue.
First, welcome to the forum. Your English is quite good. However, you should never, ever say that you "totally agree with Aquageek." People will laugh.
Coaches recruit foreign swimmers for one reason only--to win championships. And I am not convinced that my grandchildren will benefit from the taxes I am paying now. But that's the subject for an entirely different thread.
Perhaps I'll see you in Beijing in 2008--it should be quite a show.
... To me, the tax paid today will return someday in the future. It is this kind of accumulation of generations that make our world better and better. It might not reward you or your son. But it will reward your grandson....
Good point, and good attitude, but you are overlooking one fundamental point: in the USA it is all about instant gratification. This “I want mine now” philosophy has, does, and will continue to get us in a lot of trouble. And as one of the worlds largest (if not the largest) consumer nations, this methodology has a severe impact on everyone else. We’re by no means the only ones with this IWMN habit, but we have led the way and we do set the example to be followed.
Shortsightedness, overconfidence, and selfishness will most certainly spell our doom. Just look at what happened to the “invincible” Roman Empire.
I welcome you to this message board as well. It does have a lot of great info, and can at times be very entertaining. And there are no national boundaries on this forum, which I think is pretty cool too.
Several of you have pointed out the real reasons for welcoming swimmers from other countries to you ranks & files... besides "showing off" that grand American attribute of knowing how to pick and choose the "best and the better best"... no rinky-dink swimmers have scholarships.
But one thing I do know first hand, having assisted a swimmer in obtaining a full scholarship in the U.S.A., and that is that the State Department knows the benefits of exposing the American way of life to those who will eventually go back home and implement some of it back there.
Great export program.
Saludos,
David
ps - oh, USA, thanx for making it possible for us to win those medals...!!:lolup:
Yes, and I suppose a similar thanks is probably required from South Africa.
John Smith
A thanks for what? That recently the USA broke the World Record in the 400 Free Relay by almost a full second. And that South Africia did not even challenge the USA in the past 2 years in major international meets, especially in 2005 when they had 4 capable swimmers in Montreal that could do so. I wonder if they are going to field a team in Melbourne at Worlds in 2007? They did at the 2006 Commonwealth Games and went 2 seconds slower than the USA WR time. I don't think you can call me the optimist now because I truly believe that the 400 Free Relay is absoutely under USA control and with people like Cullen Jones now who is still improving I see no change in the future. I wonder what happen to Qater and the foreign swimmers they were trying to recruit to challenge everyone?
Skip.......
What country won the gold in the 400m free relay at Greece while training a majority of its members at a US college?
The 400m free was one of the last "Americas Cup" achievements for the US. We don't take losing this event lightly.
When the US wins the 400m free relay in Beijing, I will hold my beer high in the air to salute.
Until then........ battles must be won. This is not about friendly international cultural exhanges on the blocks. This race (and the medley) demonstrate the depth, power and superiority of a country's cumulative swimming program. We need to take this event back and grind them into a fine powder.
End of discussion.
John Smith
Mr Goodsmith:
I will always admit that the USA got greased in Greece. And we can all go back and read those threads about healthy Hall and sick Crocker. I really think the USA was surprised at the last two Olympics and the key legs of those losses was the lead off swims. People seem to forget about Michael Klim swimming completely out of his mind and setting a WR of :48.18, which was the second fastest time in history up until 2002. In the individual event he went :48.74 so his margin was enough to get them over the top. I also read that Anthony Erving did not have a good turn and was off on his split just enough to make that small difference. Just think if he could have done the :48.33 which he did the next year at the 2001 Worlds in Fukuoka we might have not lost that relay. Roland Schoeman split of :48.17 put the USA in a two second hole in 2004 that was just about impossible to make up.
Now this year you have to give credit for the USA World Record effort of 3:12.46 which broke the record by .71 and beat South African time of 3:14.97 at the 2006 Commonwealth Games by 2.51 seconds. I don't know if this meets your "grind them into fine powder" but a margin like that isn't even close. And the relay had the same guys on it except Darian Townsend and he was replaced by Jonas Zandberg who was not any slower. The splits are as follows: Schoeman :48.65, Ferns :48.43, Zandberg :49.44, and Neethling :48.45. So they were not swimming that slow individually and they have there major work cut out for them if they even challenge at the 2007 Worlds. I hope they don't make the same lame excuse that they don't have enough guys to field a relay. The USA has thrown down the challenge and until these guys or anybody goes in the 3:12 range, I would favor the USA in 2008. Hopefully we won't have a collapse from the improvement being made in the last two years and have complete team unity which was lacking in 2004.
Thank you, Craig. But why can I not say "totally agree with Aquageek"? I really do agree with his view. :confused:
You are welcomed to Beijing anytime you like. Just let me know when you come over and I could be your tour guild. You can also show your swimming skills. But maybe not in the Olympic stadium. :laugh2:
First, welcome to the forum. Your English is quite good. However, you should never, ever say that you "totally agree with Aquageek." People will laugh.
Coaches recruit foreign swimmers for one reason only--to win championships. And I am not convinced that my grandchildren will benefit from the taxes I am paying now. But that's the subject for an entirely different thread.
Perhaps I'll see you in Beijing in 2008--it should be quite a show.
Thanks, bud. As you said, no national bundaries here. What really matters here is swimming. Actually I just started learning how to swim. This forum are too advanced for me and I cannot find a forum for new starters. But I enjoy reading the posts here even though I do not have a clue about the techniques most of the time(partly because they are too advanced and the language is also a problem). My feeling is that, wow, can I someday master such advanced techniques? This could aspire me to practise more and harder, which I think is fun and exciting.
I do not know this IWMN philosophy. Is it really a fundamental point of USA? We also have the similar philosophy here. But it cannot be regarded as a fundamental one in any way. Good point, and good attitude, but you are overlooking one fundamental point: in the USA it is all about instant gratification. This “I want mine now” philosophy has, does, and will continue to get us in a lot of trouble.
I welcome you to this message board as well. It does have a lot of great info, and can at times be very entertaining. And there are no national boundaries on this forum, which I think is pretty cool too.
