There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Former Member
Here is a quote from Chuck Wielgus:
USA Swimming Executive Director Chuck Wielgus is familiar with both sides.
"From a selfish, narrow, USA Swimming-how-do-we-do-in-international-competition perspective, there's reason to be concerned," he said. "For purely selfish reasons, I would love to see 100 percent of scholarship money go to American kids. I think, though, that the most realistic approach would be to recognize the value of diversity in athletics, yet have some sort of governor on how much scholarship money could be allocated to foreign athletes.
Well - he pretty much says it all -- selfish, narrow, but would still like to see a cap.
Originally posted by Matt S
Let's talk about Indiana, a public University that receives substantial funding from the tax payers of Indiana. Was it inappropriate for Doc Counsilman to offer Mark Spitz, a Californian whose parents paid taxes to California not Indiana, a scholarship rather than the fastest Indianan he could find?
Excellent point, Matt.
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
Gosh, I guess we can water this down to what city or county they swim for...but the fact is...Spitz swam for the USA...and given... the state of California is out there on the left bank....But, the last time I checked it was still a part of the United States....
So your opposition to foreign swimmers getting scholarships boils down to xenophobia, is that it?
It is a simpleton idea that you can only give scholarship dollars at American universities to Americans. The world just isn't that simple anymore and hasn't been probably since before WWII.
Let me give an example. The South is full of foreign auto makers employing tens of thousands of US citizens (BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda). These companies contribute hundreds of millions of dollars to the US economy and the US, in turn, buys a bunch of their vehicles. In turn, some of the innovative production processes they have will force our outdated and inefficient domestic producers to improve. This is called competition and everyone benefits. For those wanting to close our borders, the implications are beyond that of a few swimming scholarships.
I'm not sure there is any valid argument as to why we want to limit the comptetion college students receive. We should want our students to face the stiffest competition they can so that when they leave school, they are ready for the real world, not some artificially imposed closed border real world they saw in college.
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
I simply do not think it is wise to give foreign swimmers our hard earned money to go onto the WORLD STAGE to swim against the USA. It boils down to a competition issue with me....PROMOTE AMERICA....and that does NOT make me an isolationist or nationalist....and I damn sure am NOT a racist....
No, I don't mean to imply that you're a racist, but I'll stick to my guns that you're a xenophobe. I think every exceptionally talented swimmer in the world deserves the best coaching and best competition they can get, regardless of their country of origin. My take is that you do not, if that means they might beat U.S. swimmers.
Tom:
How can you now claim you aren't an isolationist when you have stated in big bold caps to close the border on this thread? That's like saying you are a vegetarian after eating the big juicy steak.
And just because someone wants to go to the Olympics doesn't mean they have the talent. Most swimming talent is developed by the time you get to college with those 4 years just improving it. Any American who is good enough to go to the Olympics is not going to be wanting for a scholarship. Other than Phelps and some of the teenies on our team, every US Olympian is at a US university or relatively recent grad.
Why are you so interested in reducing the competition at US schools when having the best with our best is not only a compliment to our programs but also very valuable in training?
Well, crap, that's what I get for trying to stir things up.
Changing topics - a training partner of mine was shaving (face) next to me this morning and was using the new Gary Hall Jr Barbasol. I ridiculed him, he punched me.
Just so I understand this--state universities have an obligation to the residents of that state, except when it comes to athletics, because fielding a winning team trumps all else?
As for the concept of a trade, I assumed swimming was something you wanted to do, not just a job (like dorm crew), and having the opportunity to train for four years with a great coach was a pretty big perk.
