There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Former Member
My best friend lives in Denver. He had already faxed me the story. I truly believe that schools can only be responsbile to them selves. If they wast to give scholarships to non-USA citizens, fine by me. I just talked to a friend. He son graduated from high school this spring. he applied to many US colleges. The best deal he got was from McGill in Canada and Truman State in Missouri. He is going to Truman on an academic scholarship.
Maybe we should revert to old times when no one got scholarships of any kind and only those who are extremely wealthy or very hard workers can go to college. I only got $1,000 for my freshman year at DePauw and $1,000 for my senoir year at Knox. I worked 60 hour weeks at a state mental health facility to pay my tuition. I also tried to swim. It was truly a learning experience. For those of you who don't know both Knox & DePauw are in the top 100 colleges/universities in the nation according to US News. I graduated with a high B average. So many people waste so much tiem in college. I was even able to drink & participate in Flunk Day! It really bothers me when people *** about scholarships at state schools. Is the complaining really disguised racism or other negative nationalistic thoughts?
Originally posted by laineybug
"Maryyyyyyyy, and others, I certainly agree that foreign students bring a great diversity and promote greater understanding of different cultures and races on college and university campuses. I even picked an apartment in Athens because the children who lived there went to an elementary school where there was a very high enrollment of the children of foreign students. I wanted my daughter to have the experience of knowing children from other countries. But, campus diversity isn't the question really. The question is: are American institutes of higher education denying our students scholarships because they give them to foreign students? If so, is this right? In my opinion, campus diversity isn't worth the cost of an athletic scholarship going to a foreign student.
"There must be a payback for the universities, otherwise, I don't think they'd do it..."
anyway, the way most of you are going on about the issue, if I were a foreign student and read this, it would be enough to keep me away from the States...
Peter Cruise and Geochuck,
Look, no one is really talking about Canadians as being foriegners in the US.
Afterall...... Canada is the 51st state.... :-)
John Smith
This is going back a little in this thread. Sorry, but I'm way behind in my e-mail.
When did anyone hear about the last great medical breakthrough in countries with socialized medicine?
And one of the reasons for our astronomical health care costs has to do with outrageous court settlements. I live in a county where a number of these have been handed out and guess what? A huge number of area doctors left the county. It's become a real problem for us. I understand malpractice and the can of worms this opens up, but there needs to be some sort of cap.
As for illegal immigrants... with our imperfect healthcare and as was mentioned before, anyone is treated - even those not paying taxes, which is putting more stress on our already over-burdened system.
Does anyone know of U.S. citizens training in other countries? I've heard of it for other sports, but I'm not aware of this practice taking place in swimming?
Hey Paul
You are right, US colleges have allways done this they want to win in their leagues. If they want to train other nations swimmers to beat them in the Olympics, that is the way it is. The athletes are happy that the schools train and educate them.
Paul,
Please let us know of *any* foreign university (outside of Canada) that provides athletic scholarships to anybody. It is an unusual feature of the U.S. system that athletics are so closely tied to academic study (or at least pretend to be.)
Anyway, since when do American swimmers have a "right" to an athletic scholarship? If they are good enough they will get one, if not, they should get better. Competition can only make people faster.
This area where I work is most successful when it (and the national government) allows the best and brightest to come here. That is also true for our universities, and for our sport programs.
I'm not against foreign students studying or training in the US. What I am not in favor of is the US supporting those studies or training with American dollars when our citizens may go wanting. Heck, I don't even mind supporting some of the foreign students, academically or athletically if there is money left over after American students have been taken care of. My position is, American students MUST HAVE PRIORITY over foreign students.
Lainey
Quote from Geek...."Funny how liberal democrats these days want to close the borders but republicans believe in free trade, patriotism and a free market economy. "
Also posted by Geek...."I continue to be amused that the exact same far right crowd that wants to close the border also consistently votes against a living minimum wage. "
Ok, I am just some poor dumb Moose.....Please shine the light in my ears here....which way do you want it....left or right.....Seems to me you play both ends toward the middle....
No one talked of min wage...and that entire issue.....EVER IN THESE THREADS......
Regardless of the left...or the right....and NOTHING to do with min wage.....SHUT THE BORDERS.....and.............. I DO NOT GIVE A RATS A-- ABOUT LEFT OR RIGHT...JUST SHUT THE BORDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And give 100% of the swimming money to USA kids!
NEXT!!!!!!!
And Geek, you can't post it both ways.....Well, you can but that isn't right......er.....or left................
