There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
Parents
Former Member
Originally posted by gull80
So they could win. Which is why the college coaches recruit the foreign swimmers. Or maybe it's because they just want the Americans to have the opportunity to train and compete with the best.
Gull,
You're on to something here, which is at the core of our disagreement about foreign scholarship athletes. Div I coaches are hired to "win." As college coaches they have to start with athletes in their late teens and early 20s who are already physically mature, or at least 95% so. We like to think about finding a diamond in the rough in a learn to swim class, or a so-so swimmer from a marginal high school program who walks on, and becomes a conference champion by his/her senior year. (And I have volunteered my time as an assistant coach to work with this very kind of athlete in a Div III program.) That almost never happens, and you can't score major points at your Championship meet that way on a consistent basis. Therefore, Div I coaches don't "win" Championships primarily through coaching. The way they "win" is by recruiting people who are already capable of finaling. The coaching part comes in by simply not messing up the talent you already have, and maybe up-grading a few of those people a place or two if you are really good.
So, why is it so scandalous that Div I coaches look to find the best swimmers, U.S. citizens or not, for their team? If they want to "win," recruiting determines their destiny. It is exactly the same thing that goes on at any level of swimming if the coach is about "winning." I don't understand why the folks who benefitted from that system their whole careers now get to cry foul when they don't like the results at the next level.
There, we've picked this bone one more time, so I'll shut up now.
Matt
Originally posted by gull80
So they could win. Which is why the college coaches recruit the foreign swimmers. Or maybe it's because they just want the Americans to have the opportunity to train and compete with the best.
Gull,
You're on to something here, which is at the core of our disagreement about foreign scholarship athletes. Div I coaches are hired to "win." As college coaches they have to start with athletes in their late teens and early 20s who are already physically mature, or at least 95% so. We like to think about finding a diamond in the rough in a learn to swim class, or a so-so swimmer from a marginal high school program who walks on, and becomes a conference champion by his/her senior year. (And I have volunteered my time as an assistant coach to work with this very kind of athlete in a Div III program.) That almost never happens, and you can't score major points at your Championship meet that way on a consistent basis. Therefore, Div I coaches don't "win" Championships primarily through coaching. The way they "win" is by recruiting people who are already capable of finaling. The coaching part comes in by simply not messing up the talent you already have, and maybe up-grading a few of those people a place or two if you are really good.
So, why is it so scandalous that Div I coaches look to find the best swimmers, U.S. citizens or not, for their team? If they want to "win," recruiting determines their destiny. It is exactly the same thing that goes on at any level of swimming if the coach is about "winning." I don't understand why the folks who benefitted from that system their whole careers now get to cry foul when they don't like the results at the next level.
There, we've picked this bone one more time, so I'll shut up now.
Matt
