There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
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Former Member
I've been gone a couple days, but have really enjoyed catching up on the ongoing debate, although I did get a little lost during the "swimming is, or isn't, war" side-issue.
I think the article Skip Thompson directed us to is an excellent, balanced look at the issue. It echos our own debate and folks have made great and valid points on both sides.
Here's a slightly different slant on the issue. I was disturbed by a couple of the article's quotes from Frank Busch, the Arizona coach. In speaking about the South Africans' 400 Fr Relay victory, he says, "we'd talked about it for a long time, emotionally it was an incredible experience." And, "...recruiting a kid from Australia or Arizona, it really doesn't matter."
Look, I can understand that he wants to see the swimmers he coaches do well even outside of collegiate competition. And, I understand that his job is to put the best team in the pool within collegiate competition. But, his first quote makes it sound like he helped plan, and then took great pleasure in the South Africans putting to the U.S. His quotes speak to a program philosophy that I don't agree with. In my opinion, it DOES matter whether he recruits a kid from Arizona or Australia. Recruit from Arizona first! Australia takes care of itself just fine, thank you very much. They don't need our help in the pool.
The reason Australia is so good despite being a smallish country is that they make the committment to being great in swimming. Canada could do it, Great Britain could do it. Even South Africa could do it. But, they're not committed to swimming excellence like the powerful swimming countries are. Many of the foreign swimmers on athletic scholarships that we're talking about come from these countries I've mentioned, or similar countries.
Occasionally, there's an Anthony Nesty from Surinam that I actually feel good about. He trained at Florida and beat Matt Biondi in the 100 Fly in 1988. But, seemed o.k. because I KNEW he didn't have any resources at home. But, what about Duncan Armstrong, who also beat Biondi (in the 200 Free in 88). Armstrong was from Australia, but went to U of Florida. Did he really need a swimming scholarship to train in the U.S.? I don't think guys like that should get financial support to swim in the U.S.
I think it all comes down to program philosophy, which is probably determined almost 100% by the head coach. Guys like Frank Busch have one philosophy and guys like Eddie Reece have another. They both come from state schools and have the same pressure to win. I know athletic scholarships aren't need-based (with respect to a swimmer's own financial or training resources), but I would like to see collegiate coaches making the committment to developing U.S. swimmers--and I can live with a few foreign athletes on scholarship who have no resources at home.
I've been gone a couple days, but have really enjoyed catching up on the ongoing debate, although I did get a little lost during the "swimming is, or isn't, war" side-issue.
I think the article Skip Thompson directed us to is an excellent, balanced look at the issue. It echos our own debate and folks have made great and valid points on both sides.
Here's a slightly different slant on the issue. I was disturbed by a couple of the article's quotes from Frank Busch, the Arizona coach. In speaking about the South Africans' 400 Fr Relay victory, he says, "we'd talked about it for a long time, emotionally it was an incredible experience." And, "...recruiting a kid from Australia or Arizona, it really doesn't matter."
Look, I can understand that he wants to see the swimmers he coaches do well even outside of collegiate competition. And, I understand that his job is to put the best team in the pool within collegiate competition. But, his first quote makes it sound like he helped plan, and then took great pleasure in the South Africans putting to the U.S. His quotes speak to a program philosophy that I don't agree with. In my opinion, it DOES matter whether he recruits a kid from Arizona or Australia. Recruit from Arizona first! Australia takes care of itself just fine, thank you very much. They don't need our help in the pool.
The reason Australia is so good despite being a smallish country is that they make the committment to being great in swimming. Canada could do it, Great Britain could do it. Even South Africa could do it. But, they're not committed to swimming excellence like the powerful swimming countries are. Many of the foreign swimmers on athletic scholarships that we're talking about come from these countries I've mentioned, or similar countries.
Occasionally, there's an Anthony Nesty from Surinam that I actually feel good about. He trained at Florida and beat Matt Biondi in the 100 Fly in 1988. But, seemed o.k. because I KNEW he didn't have any resources at home. But, what about Duncan Armstrong, who also beat Biondi (in the 200 Free in 88). Armstrong was from Australia, but went to U of Florida. Did he really need a swimming scholarship to train in the U.S.? I don't think guys like that should get financial support to swim in the U.S.
I think it all comes down to program philosophy, which is probably determined almost 100% by the head coach. Guys like Frank Busch have one philosophy and guys like Eddie Reece have another. They both come from state schools and have the same pressure to win. I know athletic scholarships aren't need-based (with respect to a swimmer's own financial or training resources), but I would like to see collegiate coaches making the committment to developing U.S. swimmers--and I can live with a few foreign athletes on scholarship who have no resources at home.
