There has been a lot of discussion since Athens about foreign swimmers training in the United States. Most of them attend U.S. Universities, receive athletic scholarships, and compete at NCAA's. Some notable examples include Duje Draganja (Cal), Fred Bousquet and Kirsty Coventry (Auburn), Markus Rogan (Stanford), and the South African sprinters (Arizona). Some train in the U.S., but don't compete for a university (Inge de Bruijn). All of these athletes benefit from U.S. coaching, from training with U.S. swimmers, and in some cases, from financial support provided by U.S. entities (athletic scholarships). They all turn around and then win medals for other countries.
A couple questions: 1) What do you think about this arrangement generally? 2) Is it of benefit or detriment to U.S. swimming to have these foreign athletes training and competing here? 3) Should we be giving athletic scholarships, which are a scarce resource in swimming, to foreign athletes who will represent their own countries internationally instead of U.S.-born swimmers who will represent us internationally?
I'm sure there are other issues, but these come directly to mind.
John Smith:
You make some valid points, however realistically its never going to change. Why, you ask. Because the NCAA across all sports would have to limit or eliminate foreign scholarships and I don't see that happening. In basketball, because of the NBA it might not be as damaging, but in other sports they have the same problems. The NCAA main purpose is inter collegiate competition and that means recruiting the best athletes available regardless of where they are from. Every great famous NCAA coach has recruited foreign swimmers and this has been going on for over 50 years. Recently there has been a resentment over this and rightly so but because of the limited number of scholarships. I don't think a college coach would rather give a schlorship to a foreigner than an American kid, but because of the cutbacks in swimming, they will recruit the best they can get and if he is foreign so be it.
The NCAA makes it perfectly clear in there TV ads that the purpose of college athletics is train that person to be well rounded in the world and not just be a stamping ground for athletics. In fact, last night during the NBA finals game I saw a commerical with Coach K of Duke explaining what coaching at the
NCAA level means and the mission is not professional athletics.
As long as the NCAA allows it, and the coaches participate in doing it, then it will never change. Actually, I don't how you would be able to change it. When this started some 60 years ago, there were no limits on scholarships and there was not as many foreign swimmers in this country going to school and training here.
Coaches have done this for years and have never given second thoughts about it. At the 1960 Olympics in Rome, USC had nine swimmers and of those six were from countries other than the USA. In the 400 Free, all three medalists were USC swimmers, and not one of them was American. Because this has been common so long, I don't believe it will change.
I also think you have to look at the countries of where the swimmers are coming from. Take South Africa for instance, for years they did not even send anyone to the Olympics because of there political policies. Jonny Skinner couldn't go to the Olympics, even if he wanted to swim for anybody, for fear of his family might be punished because they had a policy of not sending anyone to the Olympics. Because of this history, that country is way behind in developing swimming. Frank Busch said the reason Roland Schoeman attended U of Arizona was because there were not any college programs there to match his talents and if he did not train here in the USA, he would not have continued his swimming. He would have gotten an education but without the means to continue his swimming. He couldn't make the committment because of the lack of funding.
I see the same thing with a country like Zimbabwe and Trinidad & Tobago. The swimmers from those countries don't exactly have colleges, coaches, facilities, and national funding to compete on a level playing field. So college coaches go out and recruit and try to make these swimmers the best they can be.
Is this a benefit to USA Swimming? I say yes for several reasons. It makes for better competition in workouts and meets. It also opens up for a wider range of competition. If all of these people swam for the USA, we wouldn't have as many of our own citizens swimming in the Olympics. It also helps swimming in the sense that the Olympics and World Championships are more competitive and you see better swimming performances from people all around the world.
Also its been quoted that it helps Americans. Greg Troy, who is the coach of Ryan Lochte, said he benefited immensely from practicing with Brazilian Olympians and former Florida swimmers.
He said they help raise the level and American swimmers know that, and I've never seen any resistance on their part.
The detriment to USA Swimming is the lack of scholarships for USA citizens and the decrease in medals at the Olympics. But as long as the NCAA allows it, and the coaches don't change then I believe it will never change. To quote Frank Busch, coach of Univ. of Arizona, "A lot of people complain about giving opportunities to people outside the country. You have to look past that. When you give opportunities, you get opportunities in return."
John Smith:
You make some valid points, however realistically its never going to change. Why, you ask. Because the NCAA across all sports would have to limit or eliminate foreign scholarships and I don't see that happening. In basketball, because of the NBA it might not be as damaging, but in other sports they have the same problems. The NCAA main purpose is inter collegiate competition and that means recruiting the best athletes available regardless of where they are from. Every great famous NCAA coach has recruited foreign swimmers and this has been going on for over 50 years. Recently there has been a resentment over this and rightly so but because of the limited number of scholarships. I don't think a college coach would rather give a schlorship to a foreigner than an American kid, but because of the cutbacks in swimming, they will recruit the best they can get and if he is foreign so be it.
The NCAA makes it perfectly clear in there TV ads that the purpose of college athletics is train that person to be well rounded in the world and not just be a stamping ground for athletics. In fact, last night during the NBA finals game I saw a commerical with Coach K of Duke explaining what coaching at the
NCAA level means and the mission is not professional athletics.
As long as the NCAA allows it, and the coaches participate in doing it, then it will never change. Actually, I don't how you would be able to change it. When this started some 60 years ago, there were no limits on scholarships and there was not as many foreign swimmers in this country going to school and training here.
Coaches have done this for years and have never given second thoughts about it. At the 1960 Olympics in Rome, USC had nine swimmers and of those six were from countries other than the USA. In the 400 Free, all three medalists were USC swimmers, and not one of them was American. Because this has been common so long, I don't believe it will change.
I also think you have to look at the countries of where the swimmers are coming from. Take South Africa for instance, for years they did not even send anyone to the Olympics because of there political policies. Jonny Skinner couldn't go to the Olympics, even if he wanted to swim for anybody, for fear of his family might be punished because they had a policy of not sending anyone to the Olympics. Because of this history, that country is way behind in developing swimming. Frank Busch said the reason Roland Schoeman attended U of Arizona was because there were not any college programs there to match his talents and if he did not train here in the USA, he would not have continued his swimming. He would have gotten an education but without the means to continue his swimming. He couldn't make the committment because of the lack of funding.
I see the same thing with a country like Zimbabwe and Trinidad & Tobago. The swimmers from those countries don't exactly have colleges, coaches, facilities, and national funding to compete on a level playing field. So college coaches go out and recruit and try to make these swimmers the best they can be.
Is this a benefit to USA Swimming? I say yes for several reasons. It makes for better competition in workouts and meets. It also opens up for a wider range of competition. If all of these people swam for the USA, we wouldn't have as many of our own citizens swimming in the Olympics. It also helps swimming in the sense that the Olympics and World Championships are more competitive and you see better swimming performances from people all around the world.
Also its been quoted that it helps Americans. Greg Troy, who is the coach of Ryan Lochte, said he benefited immensely from practicing with Brazilian Olympians and former Florida swimmers.
He said they help raise the level and American swimmers know that, and I've never seen any resistance on their part.
The detriment to USA Swimming is the lack of scholarships for USA citizens and the decrease in medals at the Olympics. But as long as the NCAA allows it, and the coaches don't change then I believe it will never change. To quote Frank Busch, coach of Univ. of Arizona, "A lot of people complain about giving opportunities to people outside the country. You have to look past that. When you give opportunities, you get opportunities in return."
