Learning to fly

What is the advantage to kicking with the arms at the side.... as opposed to in front in a streamlined position. I dolphin kick with the arms in front some but NEVER with them at my side. I can butterfly for about 3/4 of a length and then butterstruggle to the end. Although as soon as I hit the butterstruggle, I swim the rest of the way freestyle. I know what you mean by the kick from the hips. I do this (reasonably) well early in a workout, but then later in the workout I fall into a habit of kicking with the legs.:( I really want to learn to fly well enough to do two lengths (SCY) without stopping......I seem to suffer with the stamina though. Probably in part because my form is bad and I really have to work hard to move anywhere. Should I go back to step one - very basic wave/undulation work and build up from there? Sometimes I think that would be good.... but I don't have a coach so I'm not sure I would ever know what I was doing right/wrong.

OK, so the couple of times I have tried that.... arms at the side.... I barely move at all. I guess that's telling me my undulation is bad!?:( How quickly is everyone able to move down the pool with arms at their sides?

Paul, have you tried various combinations of one armed fly? I always do a few lengths of one arm fly before starting into full stroke. You can do 4-4-4 (4 right-four left-four full) or 3-3-3 or 2-2-rest of the way or whatever pattern allows you to swim whatever distance you want to do. One arm fly allows you to relax and focus on your undulation or other aspects of the stroke. I find the one arm really lets me get the feel and rhythm which I can then continue into the full stroke. You do have to make sure you are doing one arm fly and not one arm crawl with a dolphin kick.

Here are some animated videos, although not perfect show all the strokes including butterfly... people.westminstercollege.edu/.../swimmers.html

Bill, Unless you would rather watch TV than swim butterfly, save your money. If you have a coach, listen to him, he will tell you everything that is on any tape for sale. My original post to you (since removed) was in support of your quest of swimming butterfly without struggling. Since then, you have gotten a lot of feedback about tapes and drills and such. I would not be surprised to find you confused at what to do first (or next). Repetition is the best training, and if you repeat the correct stroke, you will be happy with the results. Drills are something to do instead of real training. Go ahead, folks, quote that plenty! I don't know how much butterfly these other posters have done in their lives, but it is my favorite and best stroke, and I was paid by a university to swim it for 2 years (I was a transfer student). I totally reject the term butterstruggle because it demeans the stroke. Anyone who attempts to swim this stroke deserves respect and congratulations for their efforts.

If you want to self describe your efforts that way, it is your choice. I resent someone else placing the label. Butterfly is not easy, but it is simple. Master the simplicity of the stroke, and it looks easy. I have been reminded that perhaps I am in the vast minority in my kinesthetic sense, so drills are helpful for almost anyone but me. I find them unfulfilling and frustrating. Just tell me what to fix on the stroke, and I'm on my way.

Originally posted by Michael Heather I totally reject the term butterstruggle because it demeans the stroke. Anyone who attempts to swim this stroke deserves respect and congratulations for their efforts. Of course they do deserve respect and congratulations, I look at them (you being one of them) with a healthy dose of envy for making it look so easy while I butter-struggle and thrash in the outside lane.

Originally posted by Scansy OK, one question. The arm that is just along for the ride.... in front or at your side? In front--so it's ready to begin a pull.

Thanks

Originally posted by Michael Heather If you want to self describe your efforts that way, it is your choice. I resent someone else placing the label. Butterfly is not easy, but it is simple. Master the simplicity of the stroke, and it looks easy. I have been reminded that perhaps I am in the vast minority in my kinesthetic sense, so drills are helpful for almost anyone but me. I find them unfulfilling and frustrating. Just tell me what to fix on the stroke, and I'm on my way. Two thoughts.... 1. I love the part about butterfly not being easy but being simple. I have always thought that was the case. I suspect that once I get the rhythm down.... really get it down.... it will make the stroke feel great..... feel simple. But it will nver be easy - it seems to require more core body strength than the other strokes. Although a good core strength is an advantage in all strokes, ***, back and free can be done without it. 2. I tend to feel the same about drills. I don't do many true drills. I will pull or kick.... and I will do a full stroke (any of the four) where I am focusing on one piece. For example swim free focusing on body rotation. But I don't do a drill such as four kick on one side then stroke as a means to focus on that. Or swim focusing on front quadrant technique without doing a catch-up drill. I just think I can focus on a specific aspect as part of a full stroke and get the same benefit. Especially for free and ***. All of that being said I must ask Lindsay...What is the benefit of one arm fly? I will try it the next time I'm at the pool, but want to make sure I know what I am looking for.