Swimming World top 12 Masters Swimmers

3. Closet Conservatism Paul has to be in the closet, he does live in the Peoples Republic of Boulder.

This year I have been hornswoggled into a bet with Bobby Patten in the 500 free. It won't be pretty. The first 200 may be pretty, but that's about it. Other than that, he and I are doing a grueling 4 day marathon of all the freestyle events from the 50 through the 1,000 plus a 6th event.... 100 IM. I'll need a gallon sized margarita when it's all over. John Smith

I agree with Meg. I participated in the SWIM Magazine "Swimmers of the Year" panel from 2000-2004 -- so I can probably shed some light on how these lists go together. Although panelists from past years’ evaluations were members of United States Masters Swimming, USMS did not create the “Swimmers of the Year” recognition. That credit belongs to Sports Publications Inc., current publishers of Swimming World Magazine. As we saw every year since the “Swimmers of the Year” recognition was first created, the readers’ perceptions are often very different from the reality. Some clarifications: Originally posted by TheGoodSmith Is there an age requirement here that we don't know about? There was never an age requirement in the past, and there is nothing in the article or the Editor's Letter that suggests an age requirement. Originally posted by White Buffalo I have now read the article in Swimming World. It makes no sense to me as to how these individuals were selected. What is the criteria? Please read the Editor’s Letter, page 6, for a description of the criteria and selection process. Originally posted by TheGoodSmith It's totally inaccurate to leave out USMS or short course yards in any evaluation of the best Masters Swimmers. Notes on that decision are also contained in the Editor’s Letter (page 6). Originally posted by Allen Stark One huge problem with this list (and the prior SWIM lists) is that it rewards breaking World Records. The award is based on swimming performance, and when evaluating the quality of performances, of course there will be records involved. However, these lists aren’t necessarily determined solely by a numerical tabulation of records. During the period from 2000-2004, the list was moving in the direction of recognizing performers who had a great impact on the sport because of the quality of specific individual performances (e.g.: Wally Dicks, Jack Groselle, Suzanne Heim-Bowen, Greg Shaw, Caroline Krattli, Bob Strand, Flo Carr, Wenke Hansen), and performers who were dominant even if they didn’t break a lot of records (e.g.: Nadine Day). Had it been a list of the 12 people with the greatest number of records, the lists would have looked very, very different. Originally posted by kaffrinn Can someone who has a copy of the magazine post the names here? Sure. Nick Gillingham, 38, Great Britain Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen, 43, USA Trip Hedrick, 51, USA Tom Wolf, 50, USA Lorenzo Marugo, 53, Italy Barbara Dunbar, 55, USA Judy Wilson, 60, Great Britain Barry Young, 66, New Zealand Yoshiko Osaki, 66, Japan Jane Asher, 74, Great Britain Sylvia Neuhauser, 76, Austria Takushi Kameda, 91, Japan

Swimmer Bill: "the readers’ perceptions are often very different from the reality". I would suggest to you that there is very little methodology here. In fact, I wonder how many of the judges or individuals selecting are current swimmers, from what nations, etc. I believe athletes or ex-athletes, as those posting are in the better position to understand excellence rather than bureacrates, politically motived individuals, etc. The individuals doing the selecting and the methodology should have been put forward too. By the by- who else would read these articles but either swimmers or ex-swimmers? I suggest your reality is not reality!

"As we saw every year since the “Swimmers of the Year” recognition was first created, the readers’ perceptions are often very different from the reality. " That's one hell of a statement dude. I can now say that I am not the most irritating personality in Masters Swimming John Smith

Originally posted by White Buffalo I would suggest to you that there is very little methodology here. In fact, I wonder how many of the judges or individuals selecting are current swimmers, from what nations, etc. I don’t know who was on the panel this year. In the past, every single individual on the panel was a registered USMS swimmer. Most of our panelists were active competitors, who participated regularly in the USMS Nationals. I met and observed a majority of the people who made the list each year -- although there were a few of the people who only participated in local meets (e.g. Barbara Dunbar before last year). For the record, I have attended 19 USMS pool national championships since 1992. From 1998 through 2003, I attended every pool national championship and swam in all but three. In 2003, I was the first person to participate in all 12 USMS national championships in the same year, including every open water championship, all five postals, and both pool nationals. Sorry if that seems like bragging. That's not the intent. I just wanted you to know I was there as much as I could possibly be. People have their own ideas about how these lists are created. Most of the time, these ideas are very different from the actual process. Having done five "Swimmer of the Year" evaluations for SWIM Magazine, it is very clear to me that a few of the people participating in this discussion have very little idea about the process. Sorry if that bugs you. I'll do my best to clarify things when necessary.

Wow, I thought maybe he just talked a lot of trash, But getting physical is just ridiculous. I assume the two Smith's are not related. It is sad to see a potentially motivating competitiveness between swimmers become real dislike for one another. I always had my rivals in college, but weather I won or lost we always shook hands and gave each other respect for the better man on that given day.

Off topic, but why is paul smith considered evil? What did he do? I feel a little in the dark. originally posted by ced357 Well......let's see.....I think we all know who is best qualified to answer that question......right Mr. G.S.?....(something about Paul reaching across the laneline (underwater) during last years head to head freestyle matchups between the 2 Smiths ...to "punch" the GoodSmith while the races were still taking place......also something about Paul holding The G.S. underwater for some unspecified amount of time at the conclusion of each of these races to serve as punishment for losing these races to Paul (although taking a close second place at Nationals is not what I would actually consider "losing")......but I think that's actually only the "tip" of the iceberg.....I'm sure mr. G.S. can supply you with a much longer list of evil doings committed by Paul over the years....apparently these 2 Smiths have been locked into mortal combat mode for quite a while now.....Who really knows how far back it actually goes?....(maybe even as far back as college??) Newmastersswimmer

Originally posted by newmastersswimmer This is a little off the subject....but I just wanted to say Hi Meg!!....It was a real pleasure meeting you and your mom (and your Masters Coach Rebecca) this past weekend up at your wonderful facility in Lexington (The UK swim center)!!.....Now I will know who you are when I see your postings.....Does Rebecca post here also? Seems like I may have run into her somewhere around here as well??....I had a total blast this last weekend at y'all's Wildcat invitational!!....especially since I found all of my swim gear that I had left at the pool Saturday nite!.....(and all just to get a couple of second place ribbons.....those ribbons are worth thier wieght in platinum though!) Newmastersswimmer Thanks Jim, it was a pleasure meeting you and your family! And what you modestly fail to mention is that you broke several meet records on your way to those red ribbons. You just had the misfortune of swimming in the same age group as a guy who broke the records by a little more than you did! My coach (Susan; not sure who you mean by Rebecca?) hasn't ever posted on the forums, but she's a world-class triathlete and perennial Top Ten swimmer. Meg

Originally posted by TheGoodSmith It's totally inaccurate to leave out USMS or short course yards in any evaluation of the best Masters Swimmers. It must be both Short Course and Long Course. Any selection that includes swimmers from the USA should have to include short course. USMS Nationals and records are as challenging if not more than world bests for Long Course meters. John Smith (short course and turn dependent) I would also describe myself as short course and turn dependent! And I agree with you that we're ignoring most of the Masters swimming that takes place in this country if we leave out SCY. I assume Swimming World's methodology was trying to compare apples to apples, and that's why they excluded our SCY records. My motivation for my original posting was to make clear who selected these swimmers, and not to criticize the methodology. But of course any methodology is debatable, especially one that has any subjective criteria. Meg