The FINA Bureau approved the dates, the schedule of events and the qualifying times for the XI FINA Masters Championships that will be held at the Avery Aquatic Center, Stanford University, Stanford California - August 4 - 17, 2006
Qualifying Times
The qualifying times are now posted. These times are easier than the USMS Long course times, however, remember if you do not swim at or faster than the qualify time you will receive "no time" for your effort - your swim will not count.
Schedule of Events
The schedule of events is up. The swimming portion will take place August 4th through 10th; and will include a day of relays. The open water swim will be on August 11th. There are also schedules for the other aquatic disciplines.
Hotel Rooms
The organizing committee has been working with a destination management company to get hotels at a good rate for swimmers. Those rates are only available if you book through the Internet portal that has been set up that has been set up or if you call the toll free number. Once to the home page of the hotel registration select your stay dates and number of guests in the room first then you will get a list of available hotels.(Also the Internet portal works best with IE 5.01 and IE 6.0+) .
Web Site
All of the above information can be found at the XI FINA World Masters Championship web site - www.2006FINAMasters.org .
Vacation destination
San Francisco and northern California is one of the premeire tourist destinations in the world. Besides the great swimming venue, there will be many day trips scheduled for you or your significant other (or children). This will be a great time to plan a vacation to the golden state.
The Organizing Committee is working on days trips and discounted airfares. Announcements will be made as the plans are made final.
michael
Michael W. Moore, president
XI FINA World Masters Championships - 2006
Stanford Unversity
Stanford California
Former Member
As a live and let live kind of guy, sandbaggers don't really bother me. For the moment, however, I do not swim in heats that sandbaggers enter.
But it is not something that I would do. I am still embarassed by what happened in the first nationals I entered (and my first meet). I underestimated how fast I would go (or overestimated how slow I would go) and got several heat-winner prizes (I didn't sandbag, honest!)
My understanding of the request for seed times is that they are either the best you have done in the last two years, or a reasonable estimate of what you will swim in the actual meet. In either case a sandbagged time is not in the spirit of the event.
The time line affected, slightly, as slower swimmers are moved into heats that should be faster. Swimmers, especially inexperienced ones (or experienced ones like me, but not in distance events) often try to pace from someone in an adjacent lane who they expect will swim at their target pace. A sandbagger certainly messes that up. One more opportunity for a faster swimmer to race against another fast swimmer is lost.
The justifications given in some of the above posts work well as long as the sandbagger is the only one doing it. But if everyone does it, the whole meet falls apart. Many rules and social expectations are set with that in mind -- the violation by one is trivial, but the violation by many can be very serious.
Most important, the whole point of meets is to race against someone. Why not do a time trial some weekday morning, otherwise? The fun part of a meet is sprinting past someone at the end of an event, or holding someone off, or comparing turn effectiveness, or the self-awareness gained as someone passes you in the last length. All that is lost to a sandbagger.
If sandbagging is in the spirit of Masters swimming, why not just do away with seeding heats altogether? First come first serve, like festival seating at a concert. Less work for the meet organizers. Saves paper, too--no heat sheets.
I guess it's like my 82 yr old dad (also a USMS member) tells me--when you get to be his age, you should be able to do what you want. He's never sandbagged, however.
Very well stated argument, Phil. I take issue with only one point.
The whole point of swimming competition is to race the clock. Other people in the water make it exciting sometimes, but time is the real goal, otherwise we wouldn't use watches.
This entire argument is a tempest in a teacup, unless the rest of the country is rife with sandbaggers. Even in our local championships (250-500 swimmers), I have rarely seen more than one or two probable sandbaggers shooting ahead of their heats. And never the same people from year to year.
I understand the argument about the timeline affect, but it is likely less than the affect of a false start, which is also not cheating but does happen on occasion.
What would you call an entire heat of sandbaggers? How about heat one?
I have to agree with Michael here. I've never sandbagged before, but maybe I should have. I won't be able to swim the 1500 at LC Nats because I'd miss my flight if I swam in the heat I would be seeded in. If I would have "sandbagged" and entered a slower time I would get to swim the event.
As has been pointed out by most of the posters in the thread about getting out a workout early, Masters swimmers generally understand that their peers may have health issues, time conflicts, etc. and getting out early is perfectly acceptable. I would suggest sandbagging is the same kind of thing. Whatever any masters swimmer chooses to do in workouts or competition should only concern that swimmer, not anyone else.
Originally posted by Michael Heather
The whole point of swimming competition is to race the clock. Other people in the water make it exciting sometimes, but time is the real goal, otherwise we wouldn't use watches.
Then why have swim meets? Why not just climb up on the blocks at your local pool, have someone time you and be done with it? Why bother with getting up at the crack of dawn, driving to an unknown pool, finding a parking spot, changing in a small locker room, swimming in crowded lanes for warmup, trying to fit your chair in a cramped spectator area and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting for your event, only to have to share the water with seven other people?
Listen, part of competition is about getting the best time you can get, but it's also about winning. The watches help determine who wins close races, more than anything.
Originally posted by SwiminONandON
Well what if you have your three best events all in a row in a championship meet?
Good point. I think if this is the case, you might not be able to swim your fastest times for all three or any of the three, for that matter. As long as you put a time that your reasonably expect to swim in the event, not your fastest, then I do not think you have sandbagged at all.
PeirsolFan:
Well, I think I have to disagree a little on this, especially when it comes to nationals. Nationals seem to be either on the east or west coast, for the most part. That really puts some challenges up for those that have to travel cross country and have long flights with big time changes. If you have already taken a couple days off work, abandoned your family, etc adding a few seconds to your time so that you can make a flight back by end of day Sunday versus Monday is ok by me.
Sandbagging to avoid divorce court should be allowed in section 43.b.VO2Max.
Hear hear Geek, and in this case we're talking about a meet that ends on Monday, not Sunday, so I'm already missing a day of work.
Also, what if you're just guessing at a seed time anyway? I haven't swum the 1500 since college so I can really only guess what kind of time I'll swim. Entering with something a little slower than I might swim hardly constitutes cheating in my mind.
Originally posted by Michael Heather
The whole point of swimming competition is to race the clock.
It would help your point on dignity if you could maintain a consistent argument.
First you said the point of racing is to defeat youth and talent. Now, it is to beat the clock.
I can't help it that I find lying at a meet unacceptable and you find it fair competition. That's where we differ. But, I'm happy to let you win heat one while the rest of us swim against folks that have posted real times and pose a real challenge. After all, that heat winner ribbon is the most important thing, or is it racing the clock, or is it beating youth and talent, hard to stay with you on this.
A false start is an honest mistake. A sandbag is not.
Originally posted by aquageek
It's dishonest for a number of reasons. First, it's lying. Second, you sandbag, you adversely impact all in your heat and other heats. Third, there is no unofficial spirit of Master's swimming that I've seen that encourages cheats. Fourth, Masters points are scored by your age group, not other age groups. Last, the only real reason to sandbag is if you are afraid of your competition and desire to swim against those of lesser, or developing, talent.
For instance, I do not drop my times in the 200 free when racing gull80 in my clown suit. He has grown accustomed to the whooping he takes from my floppy footed suit with a legit time.
Very well said. 100% agree.
