Super teams

I think the proper term is "Ionic." Seriously, the term "superteam" implies a team in name only. At Savannah I definitely felt like I was part of a team, which was very nice since our local team in New Bern (pop. 20,000) only sent two swimmers. We had a lot of comraderie (and still do), and trying to score points for NCMS added motivation to the races.

Originally posted by aquageek I haven't been following this thread - way too complicated for me. However, once pizza and beer is injected, my ability to pay attention increases dramatically. I do owe Gull a beer, or maybe he owes me one for bagging the 100 free in the lane next to me last month! At my advanced age, I'm not able to swim a decent 500 (which you were supposed to enter and swim wearing a clown suit) only 15 minutes after the 100.

Meg, The following is a friendly tone as the computer doesn't always convey tone well :) I wasn't saying "we're this and you're not". Fritz asked me to define a club team. Of course I can only speak to my experience. The nature of swimming is many of the things I, and you, conveyed: travel, fun, etc. Your #s 2, 4, and 5 are THE differences I'm pointing out! The fundamental difference remains we swim at the same pool with the same coaches. There is a BIG difference between having five different workout opportunities and swimming at different pools: 1) We are not bound to any one workout time. I mentioned I make use of many different times because of kids, etc. I know lots of people at any workout I go to. And swimming-wise, it's key, for me, to have the same coaches who know me. The workout times are conveniences. 2) We all compete for the same team ALL THE TIME- we're not WCM for some meets and then Pacific Masters for others. 3) When people sign up for WCM they sign up to swim with our coaches at our pool. I signed up over 10 years ago as Karen Heard and have forged many great friendships being part of this team. I interact with these people daily in a swimming environment. I have a lot of "friends" who I see only at swim meets. The relationship is not the same as we don't see each other every day at practice... although I guess I could e-mail them like you do. There is something to be said for doing the grueling, "ooh, that really hurt" workout, talking about it in the locker room and then going to get something to eat afterwards. I can't e-mail that. There is that basic fundamental difference between the club team and the SUPERTEAM. It's not good or bad, it just is. I have to agree with Mark Gill that having the club team and SUPERTEAM divisions at Nationals doesn't take away from any group. Just FYI, there is a much larger club team than WCM, USF (University of San Francisco) who regularly kicks our butt at the Pacific Masters Championships. It's sheer numbers. We never complain because they are just bigger (although if you divided the total points by the swimmers, we'd win :) ). But they all swim at the same pool, same coaches, etc. It's swimming apples with apples, not apples with oranges.

Jerry describes something sort of like how the state of Illinois does its HS state playoffs. Teams are chosen based on their records. Then they are grouped off in groups of 16 I think, and then labeled 1A through maybe 8A?. Our HS sometimes is in 4A, sometimes in 5A, depending on how many schools of what size make the playoff cut. We always want to be 4A, to be the largest school, instead of 5A to be the smallest in the group.

Jerry, What kinds of arguments were presented for the A,B,C... categories that you were mentioning? And what was the opposition? Just curious, were most of the people who were making the decisions on these SUPERTEAMS? Thank you for clearing this up about the current divisions at Nationals. I fear it may be ugly for my club team from California in respect to placing at Nationals! How does one, such as myself, get involved to help affect the changes you were mentioning? Do I need to go through my LMSC? Who do I talk to? I've asked a couple of "higher ups" but haven't received a reply yet. Thanks.

I think that a combined umbrella LMSC team for out of LMSC area meets is fine for those that want/need it, e.g. small workout groups or those individuals that swim on their own and who would otherwise be "unattached". I also feel that a workout group/team within an LMSC which wants to be independent at out of LMSC meets should be able to do that. So, the bottom line is, I think the way to handle the situation is to provide the option and allow both. This is the current situation within the NJ LMSC.

Thanks Jerry, whose tenure with Walnut Creek was very short. Karen My suggestion is to contact your LMSC reps and see about getting something done with them. I just did a quick cut and paste of the officers listed on the Pacific website www.pacificmasters.org/.../officers.html . . Seems like the place to start. Michael W. Moore, Chairman, chairman@pacificmasters.org 350 Wayland St, San Francisco, CA 94134 Vice Chairman Administration: Barbara Thomas, 48 White Pine Lane, Danville, CA 94506 Vice Chairman Operations (fasbenderb@aol.com) Barry Fasbender, 845 Talisman Dr, Palo Alto, CA 94303 Zone Representative to USMSswmrjoan@mindspring.com Joan Alexander, 532 Ridge View Ct, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523 Member at Large: Bill Grohe wgrohe@aol.com 189 Galewood Circle, San Francisco, CA 94131 Treasurer: treasurer@pacificmasters.org Clarine Anderson 88 Yerba Buena Av, Los Altos, CA 94022 Secretary secretary@pacificmasters.org Joan Alexander, 532 Ridge View Ct, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523 Registrar and PMS Office (registrar@pacificmasters.org): Nancy Ridout, 580 Sunset Parkway, Novato 94947 (415) 892-0771. Committee Chairmen Coaches: Brian Stack Communications-Newsletter: Joanne Berven Communications-Web Master:Michael Moore Fitness: Bill Grohe Health and Safety: Legislation and Rules:Alan Levinson Marketing/Club Development Bill Grohe Meet Operations: Barry Fasbender Officiating: Cindy Baxter Open Water: Cindy Clements Scheduling: Marcia Benjamin

Having been the member of a small team{Los Altos Masters} that lists under the Pacific LMSC, we would usually have maybe 8 swimmers at Nationals. We proudly swam as LAM and swam relays as best we could depending on who was there. Obviously,we would have had a better chance if we grouped as Pacific rather than Los Altos. I am not in favor of the Super Teams competing against the teams that are considered "large" or even medium when they are club teams. Some club teams go to Nationals with more members because they have good ,enthusiastic coaches that try to get all of their members involved. I just think that there should be a separate division for the Super teams. Kristy

Karen, I finally get it. I thought you were still arguing under the old system. (At Indy, IM and WCM were not in the same team category.) Until I read Gill's post, I did not realize the impact of the new scoring system. (I had not read the details, so I imagined 1-10 places in small, medium, *and* large categories. ;) ) Originally posted by mbmg3282 Based on the problems that existed, the house of delegates approved a rule change that allows us to score places 1 - 10 for combined, men and women at nationals. The teams that scored in the small and medium teams divisions in the past will score in this new system in most years. The 1-10 system will allow small teams to score, only if there are a few number of larger teams. (True in most years, but not a guarantee.) Maybe a compromise including Jerry's suggestions? Make four categories (small, medium, large, and biggie-sized :D), top two place, then have two more team awards based on the categories that have the most teams. (So the small group might get 1-4 places one year, next year small and medium both get 1-3.) Or maybe that'll be more of a headache. :confused: But Karen's concerns about "Superteams" were less of an issue under the old system.

I went to a very small college. At one time we had only six men on our team. However, another small college we swam against had as many as 20 guys. The college was still small it simply placed more importance on swimming. The college I went to had great baseball & women's softball teams. those teams usually won the conference champs. They had excellent facilities and very good coaches. Life is rough sometimes. There is great unfairness in almost every aspect of life. I swim alone everyday. There is only one other member of USMS in the town where I swim. Many members elsewhere are the same way. The men's high school swim team here in Galesubrg just finished an undefeated season. This was the first time all season that they were covered by our local paper with a story above the fold on the first page of the sports section. When they get to state and face the huge Chicago suburban schools where swimmign is really important, who knows how they will do. I was always told to swim my own race and hope for the best.