Hey Karen, :) I've tried to stay out of this thread, but you wanted me to pipe up. But you forget which side I'm on. ;)
I understand where you are coming from: when the competition starts, you'd like apples compared to apples, and oranges to oranges. But what some people are pointing out (and which I agree) is that the current system, although with its problems, is better than anything else that has been suggested so far. Or that any modifications would generate a huge headache, not worth the effort. If you can think of a simple method (as simple as team size) that would generate "fair" team competition, by all means mention it. I just can't think of anything right now.
Consider the Racing Club, when they showed up at Indy. They were a small group (less than a dozen) who practice (and socialize?) together, so they fit your description of a "normal" club. They also recruited some of the best swimmers, from around the world, so that would also seem to fit the "SuperClub" description.
Lemme think about IM...
1) I've swam with the people that go to Nationals, more than I have with half of my "local" team (who are morning-practice triathletes)
2) Coaches (and referees :) ) from other teams have and will advise me at swim meets. I'll greet and cheer people I recognize, even if they are on opposing (local) teams.
3) I don't travel with anyone, local or otherwise. :p But if I do find out where most people are staying, I try to stay there too.
4) Every National so far, there has been a team dinner, with awards and talks
5) See #2
6) Sorry, I moved from the East Coast, so I wouldn't have age-group experience with anyone out here. But there was another thread recently, where a new (ex-Notre Dame) was encouraged to swim with teams in the Chicago area.
7) Team t-shirts and caps
8) When we are not talking trash (*cough* Evanston *cough*), most IM members get along well
9) I think relays are fun. Without Illinois Masters, I go to maybe 2 Nationals, instead of 4.
10) My master's card lists Illinois Masters
Seems like I could justify IM as fitting your requirements for a "regular" club.
Let me give you a more practical example, from my high school days. My school district was large enough to have 3 high schools, but swimming was on the decline. The year before I joined, the decision was to combine the 3 schools for one swim team. I'm sure other schools felt this was an unfair advantage, but the alternative would have been to have *no* swim teams for the entire town of Greece. (The Athletic Directors were not very supportive of the minor sports, despite winning records.) And even combined, we were about the same size as Fairport HS. So would you have considered my high school team a "superclub", just because my school district decided to build 3 medium-size buildings instead of one large one?
Hey Karen, :) I've tried to stay out of this thread, but you wanted me to pipe up. But you forget which side I'm on. ;)
I understand where you are coming from: when the competition starts, you'd like apples compared to apples, and oranges to oranges. But what some people are pointing out (and which I agree) is that the current system, although with its problems, is better than anything else that has been suggested so far. Or that any modifications would generate a huge headache, not worth the effort. If you can think of a simple method (as simple as team size) that would generate "fair" team competition, by all means mention it. I just can't think of anything right now.
Consider the Racing Club, when they showed up at Indy. They were a small group (less than a dozen) who practice (and socialize?) together, so they fit your description of a "normal" club. They also recruited some of the best swimmers, from around the world, so that would also seem to fit the "SuperClub" description.
Lemme think about IM...
1) I've swam with the people that go to Nationals, more than I have with half of my "local" team (who are morning-practice triathletes)
2) Coaches (and referees :) ) from other teams have and will advise me at swim meets. I'll greet and cheer people I recognize, even if they are on opposing (local) teams.
3) I don't travel with anyone, local or otherwise. :p But if I do find out where most people are staying, I try to stay there too.
4) Every National so far, there has been a team dinner, with awards and talks
5) See #2
6) Sorry, I moved from the East Coast, so I wouldn't have age-group experience with anyone out here. But there was another thread recently, where a new (ex-Notre Dame) was encouraged to swim with teams in the Chicago area.
7) Team t-shirts and caps
8) When we are not talking trash (*cough* Evanston *cough*), most IM members get along well
9) I think relays are fun. Without Illinois Masters, I go to maybe 2 Nationals, instead of 4.
10) My master's card lists Illinois Masters
Seems like I could justify IM as fitting your requirements for a "regular" club.
Let me give you a more practical example, from my high school days. My school district was large enough to have 3 high schools, but swimming was on the decline. The year before I joined, the decision was to combine the 3 schools for one swim team. I'm sure other schools felt this was an unfair advantage, but the alternative would have been to have *no* swim teams for the entire town of Greece. (The Athletic Directors were not very supportive of the minor sports, despite winning records.) And even combined, we were about the same size as Fairport HS. So would you have considered my high school team a "superclub", just because my school district decided to build 3 medium-size buildings instead of one large one?
