Backstroke rule change?

Fritz, Item 1) covers the traditional “Open turn”, which is legal. Item 2) covers rolling onto your belly and touching with your hand, head, chin (ouch!) Item 3) covers the flip turn. Aquageek - It is legal to roll to your stomach as you come into the wall, take one stroke, flip and come up on my back; provided you follow the interpretation as described in item 3.

I find it rather hard to believe that Piersol, who has probably been to hundreds of meets, most of which are officiated by the top officials, is doing something so wrong. This isn't gymnastics for heaven's sake. It's swimming in the water where tiny little differences don't merit such stunning scrutiny.

Originally posted by Rob Copeland From USA-Swimming “Guide for Officiating”, which I think is used for USMS turns as well. Backstroke Swim Mechanics: 2) The swimmer begins to turn past the vertical towards the ***, but touches the wall with some part of their body (including the hand, arm, forehead, chin, etc.) before going into the turn. As long as their turning motion was continuous once they went past vertical towards the ***, it’s still legal, and they may turn in any manner they want as long as they’re past vertical towards the back when their feet leave the wall. If, however, they go past vertical towards the ***, and stick their arm out but don’t immediately begin a pulling motion, that’s a DQ for “non-continuous turning action.” With the above there would be no way to do an open turn since you couldn't reach for the wall without being disqualified. There is an exception that makes open turns legal. From the USMS rule book. Note: The swimmer who turns past vertical and, in a continuous motion, grabs the wall before pushing off with the feet while on the back is considered to have executed a "continuous turning action". I don't know how continuous motion would be defined here. You are rolling onto your front, extending your arm but not moving it. Can you kick? How far from the wall could you be and have it still be continuous?

“If you are doing an open turn then you aren't going to immediately begin a pulling motion”. Correct, but if you are doing an open turn, you are most likely not going past vertical towards the ***, before you touch the wall.

When I was in high school in the mid-70's many peole started to talk about changing the turn rule. Finally it was changed. many peole do it incorrectly, just as they used to do the old turn incorrectly. Many do not keep moving after they roll onto their stomach. Most people put both hands at their sides then ginto the wall. This is wrong. Aaron peirsol does this frequently, despite what people say. Also, if you do sort of a slight body whip, you tend not to do this.

Rob I respectfully disagree. From item #2 "If, however, they go past vertical towards the ***, and stick their arm out but don’t immediately begin a pulling motion, that’s a DQ for “non-continuous turning action.” If you are doing an open turn then you aren't going to immediately begin a pulling motion. You are going to reach out and grab the wall and most likely be a little away from the wall and have to glide. That's why I pulled the note from the USMS rule book. I tend to think it's in the rule book to clarify this exact issue. Piersol isn't a machine. He won't always do it perfectly. He's a great swimmer but I'll bet all the money in my pocket that he's stretched and broken this rule before. I don't think he did in the Olympics.

Originally posted by Karen Duggan Does anyone else think the latest backstroke rule is a little silly? I'm talking about the one where one glides into the wall "too long" on their stomach for the turn. To me, as I mentioned, it just seems silly. (1) I believe the rule says that you must have continuous forward motion into the turn. If you are gliding in, which by the way is not faster, then you are moving forward. I've yet to see one stop completely! And (2) there is definitely no advantage to gliding in for that "moment too long" that is the decision of the official. The words "continuous forward motion" do not appear in the rule. What the USMS and USS rules say is that: "Upon completion of each length, some part of the swimmer must touch the wall. During the turn the shoulders may be turned past the vertical toward the ***, after which a continuous single arm pull or a continuous simultaneous double arm pull may be used to execute the turn. Once the body has left the position on the back, any kick or arm pull must be part of the continuous turning action. The swimmer must have returned to a position on the back upon leaving the wall." The historic interpretation of the rule has been that the arm pull is part of "the continuous turning action" if there is no gap between the arm pull and the turn, and that any kicking done during "the continuous turning action" (which includes both the arm pull and the turn) is considered to be part of "the continuous turning action". Some things that can disqualify you on a turn, under the rule, are: - more than one arm pull after the shoulders turn toward the *** - a pause during the arm pull - a pause between the arm pull and the turn - a kick after the shoulders turn toward the *** and before the arm pull begins.

If you are thinking open turns can only be done on your back then you are correct. Open turns can also be done when flipping over and are legal. That's what the refers to. Note: The swimmer who turns past vertical and, in a continuous motion, grabs the wall before pushing off with the feet while on the back is considered to have executed a "continuous turning action".

From USA-Swimming “Guide for Officiating”, which I think is used for USMS turns as well. Backstroke Swim Mechanics: At the turn, three (3) things can happen: 1) The swimmer touches the wall while on their back. They may turn in any manner they want as long as they are past vertical towards the back when their feet leave the wall. 2) The swimmer begins to turn past the vertical towards the ***, but touches the wall with some part of their body (including the hand, arm, forehead, chin, etc.) before going into the turn. As long as their turning motion was continuous once they went past vertical towards the ***, it’s still legal, and they may turn in any manner they want as long as they’re past vertical towards the back when their feet leave the wall. If, however, they go past vertical towards the ***, and stick their arm out but don’t immediately begin a pulling motion, that’s a DQ for “non-continuous turning action.” 3) The swimmer turns past vertical towards the *** and executes a single or simultaneous double armpull to initiate their turn. Once the arm(s) has (have) stopped moving (and you’re sure it has stopped moving), the swimmer must be doing something to initiate their turn. If they’re not doing something to initiate the turn as soon as their arms stop moving, that’s a DQ. They can kick throughout the turn, as long as it’s part of a continuous turning action. They must touch the wall (usually with their feet) and they must be past vertical towards the back when their feet leave the wall. If they miss the wall, they cannot “scull” back to touch the wall as that reverse motion would constitute a “non-continuous turning action.” c) Observation As the turn judge, you should stand over the lane looking down to at the swimmers to observe the turns. Once a swimmer passes vertical toward the ***, you should observe that all actions of the swimmer were associated with a continuous turning action and that the swimmer is past vertical toward the back when their feet leave the wall.

It isn't freestyle flipped over?! Rats. I was hoping it was, because then there would be hope for my freestyle. It's pretty bad!