Drafting

Both Alcatraz and the Golden Gate Bridge Swim starts were akin to fist fights inthe parking lot....The Alcatraz Sharkfest start is not for the timid....the 2nd time I swam it in 1998 over 790 swimmers started at the same time....non staggered start.

Originally posted by geochuck Don't get me wrong, I have drafted of others but they did not ask me to stop. In fact I have let swimmers draft off me one in particular Abou Heif. He asked me to help him during a race to let him rest it was where he was one lap ahead of me, one third of a mile. He had a chance to win if I could make it easier for him. The way he drafted off of me meant he did not really have to make any effort. After he rested he closed the gap but did not win, and I came in third. George I probably need to get out more. I've never done a marathon swim. But George, some of your posts describe outright conversations with other competitors. When you guys do these marathons, do you actually stop to chat from time to time? Do you stop and rest after x-many hours? Stop when you encounter another swimmer? I'd really like to hear more. This is an aspect of swimming I have not tried, and I am finding it fascinating.

Originally posted by Guvnah But George, some of your posts describe outright conversations with other competitors. When you guys do these marathons, do you actually stop to chat from time to time? Do you stop and rest after x-many hours? Stop when you encounter another swimmer? I'd really like to hear more. This is an aspect of swimming I have not tried, and I am finding it fascinating. No rests except the Abou Heif thing happened during a 24 hour Team swim, two swimmers per team, swum relay style. Abou was teamed up with another swimmer and we were waiting for our team mates to touch the raft for us to swim our turns around the third of a mile course. My team mate was having dificulties and we had no chance to win and Abou asked while we were waiting if he could draft off me, I said yes. The shark incident happened at the start of a race as we left Narraganset harbour to swim to Block Island, as we cleared the breakwall the shark startled us and Billy Barton, ReJeane Lacoursiere and I stopped momentarilly. I asked Billy if that was a shark and he said "yes". He went his way, Johnny went the other way and the shark followed me. It does not take long to tell someone to get away from you. George www.swimdownhill.com

Years ago I read Conrad Wennerbergs "Wind, Waves and Sunburn" a great read on Marathon swimming. I pulled it out yesterday when George mentioned Abou Heif. I went back and read up on Abou and found our friend George mentioned frequently. The story of the 24 hour relay Le Touque swim is amazing in itself, but my favorite story is the one about Ted Erikson's swim from the Farallon Islands to Aquatic cove in SF Bay an unthinkable feat today. It's available in paperback, I've seen it on Amazon, and they have lots of used copies for 3 or 4 bucks. It's a great read, and you get a history of a sport almost unknown even among american swimmers. It was published in 1974 so it's a limited span of history, it misses the achievements of an American Marathoner Paul Asimuth who had quite a carreer in the mid to late 80's. Maybe there's an update in the cards. See Ya Brian

I'm glad the days of gladiator swimming are a thing of 40 years past.

Although I am a former US Marine Plt. Sgt. and am more the capable of taking care of myself, I always attempt to deal with these situations with tack. Sometimes that is NOT possible. Having said that, I not only see and understand George’s point, I embrace his point. Simply put, there are times when people push the envelope to the max with respect to fairness, decency and respect and they ask for what they get by their unbelievably bad behavior. I have never hit, punched, kicked or elbowed another swimmer intentionally. I handled my situation by swimming over the top of the guy. I stand by what I did and have no moral or ethical questions regarding my actions out on the lake that day. In George’s case, I have heard the old time Marathon swimming circuit was in fact often a contact sport. Those guys were tough guys, and I mean tough guys. I will not judge or criticize George for his actions for I was not there and I did not endure the things he did, and I dare say many of us have no clue what those days were like or the methods used to intimidate, slow down or beat the competition. We live and compete in a much more politically correct society today, but still we see people behaving like morons. Frankly, out in the middle of the San Francisco Bay, Lake Travis or anywhere else open water swims take place, a swimmer if often on his own. Heck, I never saw a race marshal or official to deal with two guys dogging me, so I dealt with the problem…my way….and I am completely unrepentant for how I handled that situation.

A slightly different take on this: Drafting is fine as long as there is no *deliberate* contact. In fact, it is part of the fun of open water swimming. By that I mean that it adds a tactical dimension to the race whereby you are often either attempting a stealthy draft or trying like mad to drop a drafter. But if you get kicked for touching someone's foot, too bad - you knew that was a risk when you jumped in the water. The races in the New Jersey shore area almost always allow drafting (realistically, how are you going to stop it with limited in-water help and 100+ swimmers?) and, like I said, I think it adds to the fun. That said, if a race does prohibit drafting, the rule should be respected to the best of the swimmer's ability. My $0.02 -LBJ

Don't get me wrong, I have drafted of others but they did not ask me to stop. In fact I have let swimmers draft off me one in particular Abou Heif. He asked me to help him during a race to let him rest it was where he was one lap ahead of me, one third of a mile. He had a chance to win if I could make it easier for him. The way he drafted off of me meant he did not really have to make any effort. After he rested he closed the gap but did not win, and I came in third. George

Tom - maybe it could be done wearing one of those chain mail suits.

"Ted Erikson's swim from the Farallon Islands to Aquatic cove in SF Bay an unthinkable feat today." Yes, today that would be UNTHINKABLE....That area of the country now holds one of the largest populations of Great White Sharks in North America, if not anywhere. I would not attempt that swim today for a billion dollars in cash. You can't spend money after being eaten by a Great White Shark. That swim is a twenty plus mile swim in cold water with very strong tides. Great White Sharks or not, that is one heck of a swim!