Wow, we are a bunch of crybabies...

I'm guessing that this who wrote the article person has no idea what it's like to REALLY win. when you are a champion, standards are so high that not everyone can understand it. is michael phelps disappointed with a bronze? Heck yeah! If I were him I would be too... the reality is, we're not whining, we're just champions. and, when people cheat (like the dolphin kick), we're not apt to just ignore it--we call it out! In these games, .002 seconds count. If you had spent your whole life training, preparing, sacrificing, and anticipating the games, and some opponent throws a cheap shot illegal dolphin kick in the mix--you would be ticked too! to me, cheating is cheating. I will say though, for that the basketball games, I don't feel for them at all. These guys seems like hoods to me>and they didn't seem like they appreciate being there or anything....it's as if the olympics meant nothing to them, and the attitudes they display are insulting . Frankly, I'm glad that they got handed their ass>they could use a little humbling, as far as I'm concerned. just my two cents. ;)

I think the USA basketball issue and the issue of the dolphin kick really don't belong together. I was watching the *** final and it did look like the Japanese swimmer did very brief dolphin kick off the turn. (I slow-mo'd the Tivo to double check) That's a whole different issue from what happened in basketball. Puerto Rico didn't cheat-they just plain played a better game. I did have a conversation at the pool this morning with a couple of people about the US "gold or nothing" attitude. Since when is any Olympic medal a failure? Yes, our swimmers came in with high expectations, but can't we recognize the amazing job that the South Africans did and feel good for their achievement? The sport can only improve as swimmers from around the world get better and the competition is more exciting.

I agree with Fitzswimmer. Haven't seen Katajima's race yet, but word has been out about his dolphin kick since World's. Some times things get missed...for one reason or another. The bitterness isn't going to get Hansen anything and what he has said and done should be taken up by everyone. The NBA'ers are a sad testament to the US need to win-at-all-costs to keep up with the ROW sport systems. I would truly rather see our best collegians compete and take sixth in the sport we invented than watch and hear about the tired antics of a group of surly, overpaid, bored, morally backrupt professionals. They're not MY dream team; none of them have been. WE DON'T NEED TO WIN EVERYTHING... just perform to our capabilities (Go ahead, Aquageek; though you don't even know me, light me up for that--I still believe it). Though disappointed to not win, I thought the South African win was amazing and great for the sport AND WE GOT A FLIPPIN' MEDAL!!; spread the wealth (and talent). I also expect to be disappointed knowing that Gary Hall will be a divisive entity and comment on the relay situation instead of being a member of the team. He knew the relay was determined by the prelim swim, knew that Phelps was faster, and will still blame everyone but himself for not proving himself worthy in the morning. His "well-informed" manager certainly isn't helping things, either. We just look petty and small.

The guy that wrote that article hasn't the slightest clue. Kitajima flat out cheated. There isn't even a question about it. And you can easily see the difference it made on his dive and his turn. What's incredible is that Kitahima did not get DQed. As for the Basketball team, who cares. We sent a bunch of second rates (exluding iverson and duncan) that aren't as good as they think they are. If we had taken the NCAA champion, we would bein much better shape. The guys on the current squad, for the most part, are a bunch of overpaid, pampered, egotistical individuals that have no clue how to play as a team. Frankly, I don't consider them to be representative of the USA. Our best players and teams are sitting at home, no one can argue with that. Hook'em Blue

I haven't seen the Dolphin kick myself yet, but at our USMS nationals I happened to be in the hospitality when the officials were having a meetin and going over some rules, part of the conversation went like this... "Body dolphin is okay, it can be a part of the breaststroke and it needs to be followed by the arm oull... but repeated leg only dolphin kick is not okay.... " Can anyone elaborate or comment on this? Could this be what kitajima was doing? I'm sure someone taped it?

Originally posted by Fitswimmer04 I think the USA basketball issue and the issue of the dolphin kick really don't belong together. I was watching the *** final and it did look like the Japanese swimmer did very brief dolphin kick off the turn. (I slow-mo'd the Tivo to double check) That's a whole different issue from what happened in basketball. Puerto Rico didn't cheat-they just plain played a better game. Keep in mind that most people (including, most probably, the reporter who wrote the article) don't understand the rules of competitive swimming. And I don't think the television coverage is much help.

I am done with defending Gary after his "no show" last night. Completely classless act. As far as "cheating" goes. I don't think you can call it that. The judges are there to judge these races and they obviously didn't do their job last night. If Kitajima paid off a judge, then I would agree with the "cheating" discussion. I just can't understrand why they were not watching for it again this year after his obvious dolphin kick at World's last year. A shame for Brendan but don't blame Kitajima, blame the useless lane judge!

Originally posted by Conniekat8 I haven't seen the Dolphin kick myself yet, but at our USMS nationals I happened to be in the hospitality when the officials were having a meetin and going over some rules, part of the conversation went like this... "Body dolphin is okay, it can be a part of the breaststroke and it needs to be followed by the arm oull... but repeated leg only dolphin kick is not okay.... " Can anyone elaborate or comment on this? Could this be what kitajima was doing? I saw the kick. There is a body dolphin that is an integral part of breaststroke. It brings the head up to breathe on each stroke, and then helps drive the arms forward into a streamline while delivering a bit of a snap to the legs as they kick back. But no stroke was occurring when Kitajima did his infamous kick. Kitajima was coming out of his turn into his streamline, and hadn't even done his pullout yet. Dolphin kicking is allowed at that point for every stroke but breaststroke. This sort of thing frequently isn't called in kids' swim meets or even in masters meets, because there is often only one stroke judge and he/she can't watch everyone constantly, and because this sort of thing would rarely make any difference in the outcome of an event (where 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place are frequently separated from one another by seconds, not hundredths of seconds). But in elite-level competitions like the Olympics, it can be significant.

CHEATING IS CHEATING. And I have seen the same dolphin off the underwater pull down for 40 years!!!!!!!! And in the 20 years I have been swimming Masters, I have seen many people get disqualified for it. But they SPMA was blessed by very good stroke and turn judges. Unless the pool is very choppy, a breaststroker like myself or a stroke and turn judge can spot this across the entire end of the pool. Many times I have had the referree come to me during a breaststroke race to have me verify an illegal breaststroke dolphin kick, so that I can explain it to the swimmer. For Connies and everyones benefit, only a downwards dolphin is illegal. You can do an upwards dolphin on the end of every kick and not get disqualified Off the start and turn you are going faster than race swimming speed, it is here that a downwards dolpin combined with the arm pull down can gain anywhere from 18 inches to three feet over a legal pulldown. That is exactly what the Cheater Kitajima did:mad: There is no difference in his cheating and taking performance enhancing drugs, cheating will always be cheating.

Originally posted by Sam Perry As far as "cheating" goes. I don't think you can call it that. The judges are there to judge these races and they obviously didn't do their job last night. If Kitajima paid off a judge, then I would agree with the "cheating" discussion. I just can't understrand why they were not watching for it again this year after his obvious dolphin kick at World's last year. A shame for Brendan but don't blame Kitajima, blame the useless lane judge! I get the impression the reporter doesn't realize that a dolphin kick in breaststroke is the equivalent of a basketball player momentarily going out of bounds as he dribbles the ball down the court. But Peirsol's characterization of it as "cheating" was certainly controversial. He seems to believe that Kitajima did the dolphin kick deliberately, knowing that it was unlikely the judges would be able to spot it and call it. An interesting question would be: In an event as major as the Olympics, in which the competition is usually held at a pool that was specially constructed just for that event, would it be unreasonable to have a separate underwater camera for each lane, so that each swimmer could be continuously taped during each heat, and then to review each tape looking for violations before deciding whether to DQ a swimmer?