Anybody else out there detect out there a petulant tone from Ian Thorpe on the subject of Michael Phelps?
Context:
Back in 2002, Thorpe was toying with the idea of swimming some non-free events in order to achieve a Spitz-lie medal haul in 2004. People pointed to his background in backstroke and possiblity of swimming IM as possible avenues. He wisely ducked out of backstroke when it became apparent that the 100 back is one of strongest events in the world right now.
He then tried to the 200 IM, before Phelps emerged on the scene in late 2002/2003 an event that was dominated by 28 year-old Europeans but then got trounced by Phelps in this event at Worlds.
Phelps performance at Worlds in 2003 overshadowed Thorpe and the great Aussie start shelved his plans to branch out. He's now aiming for 200/400 gold and is a darkhouse candidate for 100 gold.
Recent Snipes from Thorpe:
1) When asked about the probability of Phelps hauling in multiple medals he retorted it's "impossible" (o.k. that's a defensible position) and further more "no one should even try". (sounds like he's jealous to me). Phelps to his credited responded, "Spitz did it once" and "he's talking about himself not me".
2) Recently when asked if he was worried about Phelps in the 200 free, Thorpe's reply ..."we're worrried about the whoe field". He's not giving Phelps any credit for challenging him in an event that the 19 year old is really the underdog but wants to race it for the challenge and experience.
3) Now Thorpe is smearing the reptuation of his unnamed competitors by claiming that "I've raced against competitors that are using drugs" and "the sport is not clean".
What kind of champion is Thorpe? He's not helping our sport with his attitude. Why not welcome the competition and be gracious about it. Why not wish Phelps good luck but tell him that he'll have his hands full beating him in the 200. If he has evidence about illegal drug use why not name names and not hide behind blanket accusations. And let's remind the Thorpedo if Phelps does accomplish his medal haul there is no crying in swimming.
BTW, for the record the US men beat the Australian men in all three relays.
PS: The Aussie women's team is the strongest ever and will likely beat the US women in 2 of the 3 relays.
Former Member
A swiminfo.com writer has posted his take on the controversy around Ian Thorpes comments on doping in swimming:
swiminfo article
Read the article. Here are a couple of takes on it.
1) I agree with Ian and Grant, we could do a lot more to make drug testing more effective, and probably there have been some swimmers in the same events as Ian and Grant who had used drugs. I don't think that is particularly surprising (I was about to say "scandalous" but honestly, it is pretty bad people would do that, and they deserve to get caught.) But, bottom line, who has the World Record in the 400 and the 1500, by a lot in both cases? The fact that they are saying this, when obviously they have still managed to kick the butts of all the cheaters, makes their comments even more relevant and not subject to criticism as a bunch of excuses from malcontents. So basically, I condemn all the condemnations of what they had to say.
2) Drug testing in retaliation for their remarks? C'mon, you got to be kidding me! First, how is it reprisal to test these guys when they are clean and they have demanded more testing? The reason they have not complained about it is because this is the very thing they requested. Unless you have trapsed off into conspiracy land, and you think FINA spikes the urine samples of athletes it does not like, or you buy into the cheaters' arguments that the testing is sloppy and only IDs innocent athletes, this is not a bad thing. Second, yeah it is unlikely that both Thorpe and Hackett would be picked at random, but hey, I don't want random testing of just anyone in the Olympics. These guys are the World Record Holders, defending Olympic Champions, and likely winners in their events. I WANT THE BOTH OF THEM TESTED MORE OFTEN THAN OTHER ATHLETES TO PROTECT THEIR REPUTATIONS AND THE INTEGRITY OF THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS!! Same/same for Michael Phelps and our other top athletes.
3) I am a little uncomfortable with the relentless FINA bashing. Yes they are a little arogant and they have needed some prodding in the drug testing arena. But, they have made good progress there, and when international olympic movement standardized drug testing policies across sports, they had to dial back swimming because our program was more hard nosed than most other sports. To accuse FINA of doing nothing except when under duress is a bit rich. Also, the FINA World Cup Series has added a new and interesting twist to international swimming every year, not just olympic years, and made it possible to talk about a professional swimming circuit. And, the FINA World Championship have achieved a stature almost comparable to the Olympics, with World Records just as likely as at the more heavily covered Olympics. And, the FINA Masters World Championship meets have blossomed and come into their own. Criticize FINA for the policies you think are wrong headed; I'm fine with that. However, one can cross the line separating legitimate, constructive criticism and myopic ingratitude. I don't particularly care for bashing great swimmers like Janet Evans merely because you happen to disagree with their positions on the issues. You can disagree without questioning someone's motives or integrity.
Matt
I'm gonna open up an old can of worms!!!!!! Thorpe shouldn't even be competing the 400!!!!! DQ'd!!! End of subject! They even had to bring in lawyers to make sure he got in! What's that saying?
Originally posted by tjburk
I'm gonna open up an old can of worms!!!!!! Thorpe shouldn't even be competing the 400!!!!! DQ'd!!! End of subject! They even had to bring in lawyers to make sure he got in! What's that saying?
Geeeeze, you are a glutton for punishment! (Although I agree with you.)
I feel your pain, Aquageek, in trying to figure out some kind of television schedule for the Olympics. So I went to NBC's website to see their schedule of programming. I got a big headache at first but figured out some sort of schedule for myself as I want to record the swimming events, especially since I am from the Baltimore area. (Actually, I grew up in the Towson, Maryland area.) I know that NBC might not be the best, but it's better than nothing!
That being said, NBC is rebroadcasting the previous day's events early in the morning following the prime time broadcast. All of the listing are on NBC (check your local cabel channel) and the times, I believe are EDT. (Don't ask me which day has which event!) Here goes:
AUGUST 15: 2:00 AM - 5:30 AM
AUGUST 16: 2:00 AM - 4:30 AM
AUGUST 17: 2:00 AM - 4:30 AM
AUGUST 18: 2:00 AM - 4:30 AM
AUGUST 19: 2:00 AM - 4:30 AM
AUGUST 20: 2:00 AM - 4:30 AM
AUGUST 21: 2:00 AM - 5:30 AM
AUGUST 22: 2:00 AM - 5:30 AM
In addition . . .
AUGUST 13: 8:00 PM - 11:30 PM Opening Ceremonies
AUGUST 29: 7:00 PM - 10:30 PM Closing Ceremonies
Since the prime time coverage is during the day, the probability of my taking off from work, life (honey-do stuff), etc., is about zero to nothing, so recording the rebroadcasts seems to work for me.
I am curious, anyone else doing some time shifting here? Also, what format would you use: VHS tape or DVD? I am using DVD myself.
It will be an interesting week, nonetheless, for swimming.
I AGREE WITH MATT S. BUT....
This swiminfo article is a proganda piece. Yes, FINA could do more about catching drug cheaters (so could the USA and Aussie authorities) but what does that have to do with Thorpe's comments. No one has any problems with complaints about FINA it's his finger-pointing at unnamed competitors that set's everyone off.
Then there is Thorpe's recent comments about "performances versus medals" (see NYT, AP and Aussie wire services). This is in response to constant questions about Phelp's medal attempts and questions about Thorpe's medal hopes. Wonder what Thorpe would say if someone asked him why he hasn't set a world record LCM in years and will he be disappointed if he doesn't set a world record at the Olympics? Bet Thorpe changes his tune to it's just about winning the gold.
The truth is that Thorpe's seems to be struggling with his image in the swimming world. As a teenager he was a real phenom. He greatly upstaged by Phelps at World Championship. Phelps beat him head-to-head (that doesn't matter though because Thorpe's performance was good) and set multiple world records.
Thorpe is a great swimmer. Now we'll see if he's a great competitor....in my mind that's all that counts. He'll have to prove himself a great competitor in Athens to establish his legacy because ultimately Phelps is going to knock down his records in the 200/400 so it really isn't about "performances"
Are you sure Thorpe's comments about medals versus performance were in response to questions about Phelps? No chance that they were in response to questions concerning the fact that if he wins more than one gold he'll become Australia's "greatest Olympian" ever? (fox.au article)
Considering that he holds the world record in the 200 and 400 free there is a good chance that a personal best performance, or even close to personal best, in either event will get him the gold. Is it really such a bad thing that he is more focused on matching his best performances instead of his medal count? Consider that if he wins gold without setting a personal best that people will continue to make comments about his not setting a LCM world record lately.
I really think that attempts at cutting Thorpe down are really misguided.
