Anybody else out there detect out there a petulant tone from Ian Thorpe on the subject of Michael Phelps?
Context:
Back in 2002, Thorpe was toying with the idea of swimming some non-free events in order to achieve a Spitz-lie medal haul in 2004. People pointed to his background in backstroke and possiblity of swimming IM as possible avenues. He wisely ducked out of backstroke when it became apparent that the 100 back is one of strongest events in the world right now.
He then tried to the 200 IM, before Phelps emerged on the scene in late 2002/2003 an event that was dominated by 28 year-old Europeans but then got trounced by Phelps in this event at Worlds.
Phelps performance at Worlds in 2003 overshadowed Thorpe and the great Aussie start shelved his plans to branch out. He's now aiming for 200/400 gold and is a darkhouse candidate for 100 gold.
Recent Snipes from Thorpe:
1) When asked about the probability of Phelps hauling in multiple medals he retorted it's "impossible" (o.k. that's a defensible position) and further more "no one should even try". (sounds like he's jealous to me). Phelps to his credited responded, "Spitz did it once" and "he's talking about himself not me".
2) Recently when asked if he was worried about Phelps in the 200 free, Thorpe's reply ..."we're worrried about the whoe field". He's not giving Phelps any credit for challenging him in an event that the 19 year old is really the underdog but wants to race it for the challenge and experience.
3) Now Thorpe is smearing the reptuation of his unnamed competitors by claiming that "I've raced against competitors that are using drugs" and "the sport is not clean".
What kind of champion is Thorpe? He's not helping our sport with his attitude. Why not welcome the competition and be gracious about it. Why not wish Phelps good luck but tell him that he'll have his hands full beating him in the 200. If he has evidence about illegal drug use why not name names and not hide behind blanket accusations. And let's remind the Thorpedo if Phelps does accomplish his medal haul there is no crying in swimming.
BTW, for the record the US men beat the Australian men in all three relays.
PS: The Aussie women's team is the strongest ever and will likely beat the US women in 2 of the 3 relays.
Trash talking is good, makes it more fun to watch the actual competition. I think both Phelps and Thorpe should engage in more as I find it hard to dislike either since both seem rather decent fellows.
Kind of reminds me of the way gull80's local "college" likes to think they are a legit university but get trounced every time they travel a 100 miles or so west. (gull80 - I know you didn't go to EZU).
I find it amazing the spin that people try to put on Thorpe's comments, when you see them in context they always come down to saying that he thinks it's impossible in todays context of having to swim semi-finals and increased specialization, that he wishes Michael well and hopes he makes it, and that he thinks it is unfortunate that a lot of people will consider Phelps a disappointment if he only wins six gold.
"I don't think anyone will win seven (swimming) gold medals at the Olympics," he said.
"If it's going to matter, I be delighted to see Michael do it. I don’t really care. The biggest sadness is that if he wins six it would be amazing, but it will be deemed as a failure."
From foxsports.au article
Gee golly, what a mean spirited thing to say. NOT!
It will be very hard for Phelps to win all of the races he has entered because of the new format with the qualifying & Semi's. If he does it will be great. We must remember though that the total number of races he will be swimmin gis far more than what Spitz had to do.
Also, Thorpe's overall form is much better in the free. Look at how phelps screws the lightbulb and doesn't drop the pinkie when he first catches the water, esp. with his left hand. that creates drag, uses more time & creats drag. Both are probably the best swimmers around right now. But both have trememdous competition.
It will be an exciting competition. Hopefully, it will spark some true interest in swimming in this country. the real debate seems to me to be why are so many colleges dropping swimming as a sport in the USA. In Australia, the number of clubs, the dominant organizations through which people compete, has dramatically increased over the last 20 years.
Originally posted by LindsayNB
I find it amazing the spin that people try to put on Thorpe's comments, when you see them in context they always come down to saying that he thinks it's impossible in todays context of having to swim semi-finals and increased specialization, that he wishes Michael well and hopes he makes it, and that he thinks it is unfortunate that a lot of people will consider Phelps a disappointment if he only wins six gold.
How about his recent "smear" campaign against his competitors re drugs? Also his "no one should try" that produced Phelps retort?
Please provide the context for these remarks so we can all be set straight. If he thinks his competitors are on drugs prove it and name names!
I'm not sure about his comments about drugs, I was referring to his comments about Phelps.
With respect to Phelps I have never seen a quote from Thorpe saying "no one should try" only comments that he doesn't think it is possible and that Phelps should not be considered a failure if he comes up short. If you can cite a source for a direct quote for "no one should try" I would be interested and probably disappointed in Thorpe.
On the drug front, I remember the bronze medal winner in a cross-country ski event at the last winter Olympics making comments that her sport was not clean and being jumped on by everyone. In the end the gold and silver winners had their medals taken away for doping offences. Just saying that you believe that drug use is taking place in your sport isn't necessarily a smear campaign. There were Chinese swimmers sent home for packing banned substances to the Sydney Games weren't there?
It continues to amaze me that people hold Title IX responsible for all college athletic evils. I fail to see how something that has encouraged more sports participation is a bad thing. It is my understanding that college athletic participation is at an all time high. When will the Title IX moaning and groaning end? Isn't it about time to stop crying about that? After all, there's not crying in swimming.
Originally posted by LindsayNB
men competing in non-revenue intercollegiate and high school sports, including the Olympic sports of swimming and water polo, are losing the opportunity to train and compete because of expanded funding and roster sizes for men’s football and basketball.
This matches my first reaction to the Title IX statement.
But I'd like to add a little different perspective to this. Colleges are struggling to survive financially. Football and Basketball are the two biggest athletic moneymakers in the college world. In most cases, additional $$$ funneled to these two sports come back multiplied in revenue. (Gate revenue, TV, bowl games and tournament payouts, merchandizing.)
I'll be the first to ask the leading question whether the primary purpose of colleges and universities is to educate, or to develop a winning (aka profitable) sports program. But that question is sadly ignored under the current cultural/capitalistic realities of this society.
With respect to Phelps I have never seen a quote from Thorpe saying "no one should try" only comments that he doesn't think it is possible and that Phelps should not be considered a failure if he comes up short. If you can cite a source for a direct quote for "no one should try" I would be interested and probably disappointed in Thorpe.
I will dig it up. Perhaps others can find it quicker since I'm actually working at a USA swim meet this weekend. But the Phelps comment was specifically in response to Thorpe's "no one should try". Granted we should find the quote.
Just saying that you believe that drug use is taking place in your sport isn't necessarily a smear campaign. There were Chinese swimmers sent home for packing banned substances to the Sydney Games weren't there?
Thorpe's comment were directly about people he has competed against and you can find them on the news reports on USA Swimming website.
I believe if you make such accusations you should be direct...Shirley Babashoff pointed directly at the East Germans and others, such as Phil Whitten's comments about Chinese 5 years ago, are on the mark because they have the courage to name/names and cite evidence.
Also, Thorpe's overall form is much better in the free. Look at how phelps screws the lightbulb and doesn't drop the pinkie when he first catches the water, esp. with his left hand. that creates drag, uses more time & creats drag. Both are probably the best swimmers around right now. But both have trememdous competition.
I think this race is going to come down to experience and strength and not technique. Both Thorpe and Phelps are good enough technically. Question is whether Phelps has the strength at age 19 to descend that third 50 to stay with Thorpe. Also experience in a 200 is very important and Phelps is at disadvantage vis-a-vis his major competitors (Thorpe, Hoogie, Hackett and even Keller ) in this regard. He just hasn't swum the 200 free in major international meets before.
In two years, or less, Phelps will smash Thorpe's record in the 200 once he "grows into his body".
Originally posted by LindsayNB
Stated another way, men competing in non-revenue intercollegiate and high school sports, including the Olympic sports of swimming and water polo, are losing the opportunity to train and compete because of expanded funding and roster sizes for men’s football and basketball.
Less funding for swimming, I can see that. But how can they say title 9 isn't part of the problem if the football & basketball teams are getting larger? That means that either more women must be added or other men/sports are dropped to adhere with title 9.
