I am SOOOO Mad!

Originally posted by Michael Heather I think that the lady should have shouldered at least 50% of the liability, inasmuch as she decided not only to put the coffee in a sensitive area, but compounded her lack of good judgement by taking off the lid! Hi Michael, could you point out the article you are looking at? From the one I linked to, there is nothing to indicate: 1) that she had the coffee cup between her legs (there was a different, previous suit where someone did that) 2) that the car was in motion at the time of the spill 3) that there was an easy way to get cream and sugar into the coffee without taking off the lid of the cup. I'm not saying she didn't do all three. Just that you could be scolding her for things she didn't do.

Aquageek...you are on a roll here my friend.....and I think you are hitting the nail directly on the head...... Each of us pay for these law suits in the form of increased prices/rates. Our system is way out of whack. Let me visit another area to prove I am unbiased regarding this issue. I was right out of college and working (temporary) on a paving crew in the D.C. area in Nov. 1977. I was backed over and squashed under a loaded (actually over weight) dump truck in excess of 28 tons. The sub-contractor was negligent in four areas. 1. No back up warning bells on his truck. 2. No inspection sticker. 3. Over weight by many tons. 4. No road marshal or orders to back into the paving machine. I was in my area of work, doing my job and without warning this dump truck backed over my midsection and squashed me in the street. The Workman Compensation laws in the State of Virginia do not allow law suits against employers for negligence. Any settlement is based upon the workers pay scale. I received $9800.00 plus life long medical benefits related to my accident. For the record, I was SQUASHED! I had my intestines blown through my rectum into my Levis, my right femoral head squashed out of my right side, the total loss of my right buttocks, colostomy for two years, 5 life or death operations in the first three days after my accident, 22 operations to date, three rectum reconstruction surgeries, crushed pelvis and sacrum, 40 plus pints of blood the first three days, Hepatitis C from the blood transfusions, and horrific pain and suffering for years after this accident. Yet, I was NOT ALLOWED TO BRING SUIT AGAINST MY EMPLOYER FOR OBVIOUS NEGLIGENCE. The company was fined for all four violations by the government and those violations stuck even after appeal. My point? If anyone should embrace negligent law suits….it is ME! Yet, I think the system is way out of whack….and I mean OUT OF WHACK….

Did you seriously read my post, aquageek? aquageek? My point was that the risks I took were reasonable given my reasonable expectations. As such, when things did not work out (in that an accident did happen), I certainly would not sue. In fact, I have never sued anybody or any institution. So much for ad hominum. But, the condition of McDonalds coffee was not reasonable. I think this woman had a case. My point was just the opposite of what you say -- I expect McDonalds to live up to a level of responsibility *less* than what I would do myself. I like to think that I would know, before serving boiling coffee to thousands of unknowing people, that bad things would happen, so I would not do it. I don't really expect McDonalds to live up to that level. However, after being told several dozen times that people were being hurt, I do expect McDonalds to change its behavior (before losing a legal case.) Perhaps you think that corporations are like nature, and suing them is as unreasonble as suing the climate for flood or fire damage? Sorry, they are human institutions and should be expected to act to existing social standards. By the way, going back to aquatic issues, here are some 20 degree differences: Open water swim at 45 degrees: can't do it Open water swim at 65 degrees: OK swim workout at 80 degrees: OK swim workout at 100 degrees: *not* OK coffee at 170 degrees: sippable coffee at 190 degrees: scalds at touch

Going back to the original subject of this thread (Mike, I did not have to check,) here is a story that happened to me last week: Beginning of the workout, I am tightening up lane lines with a wrench, in the water, moving from lane to lane. It is early, and the pool deck is nearly empty. A colleague jumps in the water, near enough to me to be a concern and making it clear that we were both lucky that one or both of us were not hurt. I did not expect to be jumped on while I am doing an everyday chore that happens every morning. I did not think that I needed to look up to be sure someone was not jumping into the lane before I moved into it. My colleague did not expect someone to suddenly move into a lane that he just observed was clear. Accidents do happen to reasonable people. Pools should not allow people to dive except in carefully controlled situations, which do not happen in general rec. swim.

Originally posted by Phil Arcuni Accidents do happen to reasonable people. Pools should not allow people to dive except in carefully controlled situations, which do not happen in general rec. swim. What about stop look and listen. If you don't pay attention you can get hurt.

I join the ranks of ConnieKat, aquageek, and he-who-shall-not-be-named and posts three consecutive messages to an almost-flame thread. Perhaps the problem is that it may seem unfair for someone to receive a 'windfall' for acting dumb and getting hurt. Perhaps you will agree that sometimes corporations act irresponsibly. If so, would you prefer that some faceless organization 'committee for responsible corporate practices' perhaps, take on the task of enforcing social norms and collecting punitive punishments? Or the church? Or the insurance companies? Or the government? Not for me, I know how quickly and universally these types of organizations get co-opted. I prefer the chaotic, uncontrolled, and somewhat 'unmanipulated by the powers that be' system that we have. That is, individuals, institutions, and lawyers acting from faith, inspiration, ethics, jealousy, selfishness, and avarice. The combination is much better than the alternative.

"What about stop look and listen. If you don't pay attention you can get hurt." Next time I break someone's neck because she did not look before moving into my start lane, I will tell them that. It it were my pool under my management, I will tell her that also. Then I will have a restful night of sleep.

Originally posted by Tom Ellison Aquageek...you are on a roll here my friend.....and I think you are hitting the nail directly on the head...... Each of us pay for these law suits in the form of increased prices/rates. Our system is way out of whack. Let me visit another area to prove I am unbiased regarding this issue. I was right out of college and working (temporary) on a paving crew in the D.C. area in Nov. 1977. I was backed over and squashed under a loaded (actually over weight) dump truck in excess of 28 tons. The sub-contractor was negligent in four areas. 1. No back up warning bells on his truck. 2. No inspection sticker. 3. Over weight by many tons. 4. No road marshal or orders to back into the paving machine. I was in my area of work, doing my job and without warning this dump truck backed over my midsection and squashed me in the street. The Workman Compensation laws in the State of Virginia do not allow law suits against employers for negligence. Any settlement is based upon the workers pay scale. I received $9800.00 plus life long medical benefits related to my accident. For the record, I was SQUASHED! I had my intestines blown through my rectum into my Levis, my right femoral head squashed out of my right side, the total loss of my right buttocks, colostomy for two years, 5 life or death operations in the first three days after my accident, 22 operations to date, three rectum reconstruction surgeries, crushed pelvis and sacrum, 40 plus pints of blood the first three days, Hepatitis C from the blood transfusions, and horrific pain and suffering for years after this accident. Yet, I was NOT ALLOWED TO BRING SUIT AGAINST MY EMPLOYER FOR OBVIOUS NEGLIGENCE. The company was fined for all four violations by the government and those violations stuck even after appeal. My point? If anyone should embrace negligent law suits….it is ME! Yet, I think the system is way out of whack….and I mean OUT OF WHACK…. Yeah, but this lady spilled HOT coffee on herself!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Maybe if you had run yourself over with that truck.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Conniekat: I thought you might be assuming that any verdict for the plaintiff, meant that his or her own fault was disregarded -- although, I'm not sure why I did, now. But, I was just making a general statement.:) (I don't have any opinion what the percentage should be; I don't know enough about the facts.)

Hot coffee is a beverage, it can be (carefully) sipped. Coffee at 190 degrees is not a beverage, it can not be sipped. Used normally as a beverage people will get hurt. A very sharp knife is still a functional knife. Used normally as a knife it will work. This point has been made repeatedly and was accepted by the judge and the jury, and becomes an established fact. If you refuse to acknowledge it we live in alternate realities, where mine is based on physics and biology and yours is based on urban myth.