If I am reading this right, Swiminfo.com is reporting that Craig Stevens is indeed going to back out of the 400 and leave it up to Australia Swimming to "pick another member of the Olympic Team" to swim that race in Athens. If I am ANY other country, swimmer, the 3rd place finisher at the Trials or an organization interested in ethics, then I am raising a stink on this one!!!! Thorpe DQ'd and the Aussies are going to skirt the rule and get him in anyway. They would be relegated to the status of Ben Johnson, Rosie Ruiz, and the 60+% of MLB who are on steriods! This is FREAKIN' UNBELIEVABLE. I have no respect for any of the aforementioned and if this happens, none for Ian Thorpe and the Australian swim federation (or whatever official name they hide behind) are in that seeming, stinking pile.
Former Member
No but he is probably using the super duper VO2Max shampoo which is not available yet in Illinois, so unfair!
Originally posted by Scansy
I don't know if it is righteous indignation on my part. And it isn't just a robotic "that's the rule". It is the fact that it doesn't feel right to me. Never will.
And you can't say flat out that Thorpe swimming is the right thing, just as I can't say that Stevens swimming is obviously the right thing. This is a massive gray blob of an issue.
This statement is totally confusing. It would seem to me that the small rules obsessed group would be overjoyed that decorum and rules were followed. Since the Australians have followed the rules and Thorpe can and will participate, why aren't you happy that society has been preserved?
Originally posted by tjburk
I say again!
Can someone argue with this?
Yes, read "guidelines" on the dictionary....
You guys are amazing: you fail to realize that there are NO RULES to choosing an Olympic Team. And if the AOC decided to change their GUIDELINES even after a swim meet they call "Olympic Trials", in order to have their best athlete in the O's that is their prerogative. Like it or not.
I'm convinced that had Stevens not qualified in the 1500 the AOC would have had a harder time justifying the change. But the fact is that Stevens already has his spot on the team and he has a better shot at a medal in the 1500 than in the 400 (go check his times vs. last year's world rankings to see for yourself). He knows this and he already knows that he's not swimming the 400. For this reason I don't believe he is overly distraught over the issue. He is now just trying to do what anyone else in his position would do: create as much publicity around himself and cash in as much as he can.
Shaky, AquaGeek: you guys are starting to post with the same "righteousness" that you are accusing others of using. Also, when you say that others are blindly following petty rules, you are sounding like Ion.
Okay... that was way too far. I apologize. ;) The point is, both sides are arguing about the "fair" thing, but disagree on what that is.
May I suggest a common ground, that we might all be able to agree with? You guys are saying that Thorpe is an exceptional situation, and that the AOC is clearly trying to do a fair thing (by Thorpe) and not trying to cheat someone (like Stevens). A bunch of other people are saying that the way the AOC is doing it, under *different* circumstances, would lead to abuse and unfairness. (Imfairness? :) )
I remember a water polo game back in high school. In the gold medal game, in a very close match, we lost to the favored team. (The "better" team.) Well, one of the referees used to play on the "better" team when he was younger. After the game, he was heard to tell someone that the "right team won", and implied that he called it that way. Well Shaky, we bitched and moaned among ourselves, but didn't sue anyone. And AquaGeek, the "better" team won, so no harm done, right? But after an exhausting, hard-fought game, because the referee had preordained who *should* win, we'll never know if my team would have won (if called fairly), or still lost anyways.
Geek, I disagree! You asked what rule was being broke! Every swim meet has rules! The rules governing the start were broke by Thorpe at the qualifying meet for the 400 Free for the Olympics...thus, he should be ineligible for the 400 Free at the Olympics. That is the way it works for everyone else.. unless I am wrong! Have you ever been DQ'd? If so, were you allowed to continue on to the finals for that event? I don't think so!
And by the way, I have read every post through the whole thread.:D
I just disagree with your logic on this! He should not be allowed to swim the 400 free at the Olympics because he did not finish the race at qualifying! It should go to the next person in line. He should not even be considered for it...because of the DQ!
And I say go back to my post earlier about the definition of what Disqualification means and tell me how he has any right to swim the 400 in Greece!
Sure I want to see Thorpe swim the 400 free! Who doesn't. It just seems wrong to me to allow him to push out a swimmer who actually swam the event at the Australian Trials and earned his spot. If he chooses to step down on his own merit, then fine. I hope they are not pressuring him just so they can get their "Golden Boy" in the Olympics. But, as their lawyers have "translated" the "guideline" it is their right to designate who will replace him. It just seems a little "Clintonesque" to bend the rules and stretch the meaning of words to your liking to get the results you want. :rolleyes:
mattson:
I have tried to maintain my logic throughout this lively discussion. That, by itself, should separate me from Ion.
My point continues to be rather simple. Australia is given the authority to choose their representatives and have established their own guidelines for doing it. There is nothing in they have violated. Now, many think this is unfair, unpure and opens the gates of swimming hell for the future.
It's also none of our business, really. Who appointed us for this role? I believe the Australians can do what they want and if there is some infraction, I guess the IOC has their own standards board (probably driven by who gives them the most money or trinkets).
Originally posted by aquageek
You guys really need to move on. His false start is irrelevant at this point. He's participating on his team by his country's rules.
So, as you can see, despite his false start, he will swim. He's not breaking any rules, not a single one.
I don't think anyone is arguing that he is breaking a rule, just that it all seems shady. Why have trials if you are going to pick who you want anyway? Just pick your team by rankings and don't have trials. What happens in 4 years when someone else does this, and maybe does not have the name and quality Thorpe has, and says "Well you did it for Thorpe, now do it for me". I think Australia may be setting themselves up for future problems. Of course, that is Australia's problem, not anyone elses.
And yes if he did not swim, everyone would say that whoever won the gold in the 400 would not have really won if Thorpe had swum. So now that won't happen.
Karen, having a just turned 11 year old daughter, I sympathize. They only hear what they want to hear!
Thorpe FALSE STARTED!
Originally posted by aquageek
My reference was to the ongoing bribery scandals at the IOC. The Olympics are ONLY about money these days, just ask ole Samaranch.......
The Olympics about money? Really? Since when?:rolleyes:
