Core muscles and arms

These are great posts, thanks. :cool: (I especially like the head-snapping Kenmore visual.) It's not just a power transfer from the legs. The next time you are in a pool with a water polo ball (all the time, I know...), try this. Float on your side, only kicking and hand sculling to keep your balance. Hold the polo ball up with your throwing arm, and hurl it just using your shoulder muscles. Then try it a second time, rolling your body around the long axis with the arm whip at the end. That is the kinetic transfer that I would like to improve. I definitely roll slowly, but if I try to speed that up, the power does not get transferred efficiently.

Originally posted by dorothyrd I coach little girls in softball and one of the hardest things to get them to do is to throw properly using their body, not just their arms. In other words, you are coaching them to not "throw like a girl." :D

My daughter is getting some extra private coaching right now, and they are working a lot on what I would consider core. Body balance, the stroke starts from the hip, and other things I don't quite get, but seem to be about the core. I watch what they do with her and take it into the pool with me, but with no one to watch, I may or may not be getting it. Sometimes I feel it, sometimes not. I would be interested in a discussion of this sort that does not roam off topic!

Mark, I too find that hard to believe, however I don't think that there is a sinlge sport (archery maybe) wher your core muscles, abs, glutes, lower back, and hammies aren't the key to success. Billy Wagner, Gary Hall Jr. and Barry Sanders have one thing in common - they all squat over 500 lbs (Barry more like 650). Oh and this reminds me of something. Dolan was swimming a set of 1000s next to me. I was watching him from behind. If your head got stuck between his legs while he rotating his hips I am 100% certain it would kill you. Far more powerful than my Kenmore washer.

For me, using my core muscles really depends on the event. In distance events I don't use my legs much. Thus I let them drag much more than I would on a 50 fr. In the 50 I'm using my legs a lot, which also means I'm keeping them higher in the water. So that means I'm using my hips and abs to help stay high in the water. Same goes with my upper body for distance(lower in the water = using less abs/legs to stay high). But for all of the strokes I'd say I'm using my core muscles much more. Maybe not as much in back stroke, but definately in *** & fly (should be obvious for those 2).

I'm convinced that core muscles are one of the very important components.

Originally posted by mattson That is the kinetic transfer that I would like to improve. I definitely roll slowly, but if I try to speed that up, the power does not get transferred efficiently. Try this: Stay in position until your anchoring hand (a.k.a. the hand in front) has reached somewhere between 45 and 60 degrees below horizontal. At that point make a quick "snap" of the hips transferring from one side to the other. This is actually a smaller movement than it sounds. If your other hand is in the water by the time the anchoring hand has reached 90 degrees below horizontal, you can reach with the hand entering the water and glide using the rest of your push and any kick that you have. (I have none worth anything.) Repeat to the opposite side. Full disclosure: This is based on the TI school of thought. I use the TI method but am not a slave to it, having modified it's teachings to better suit me. -LBJ

Originally posted by mattson I brought up the baseball pitcher analogy that is popular. Craig mentioned he knew of that example, but the pitcher gets to push off the ground. I gave a counter example of throwing in water polo (in an all-deep pool ;) ). There's also another important analogy to baseball: I doubt that any kid who is learning to pitch needs to be told to use his arm. But there are plenty of kids who need to be told to use their core body. The same is true in swimming. Regardless of whether the arms are more or less important than the core body, it is the core body which swimmers more often neglect, and therefore that is the part of their stroke that more commonly needs to be corrected. Bob

I am laughing at the Kenmore thing, very visual!! I coach little girls in softball and one of the hardest things to get them to do is to throw properly using their body, not just their arms. I had a great softball coach at 10 who taught me properly and still can throw the ball from center field home without battin an eye, so core is important. One friend who was helping me to learn to get that hip "twitch" told me to just stand in the water and practice twitching my hip forward and back as fast as I could. Looks very, very strange, people move away from you! Then he said float on your stomach kicking gently and practice that same twitch, doing the same side all the way across the pool. I have to say I am definately a right twitcher, not a left twitcher!! :) The progression is to start adding the arms in, but always lead with that core hip twitch. I have not mastered this, I drill it from time to time and I am sure people think I am having seizures. :)

Originally posted by Leonard Jansen At that point make a quick "snap" of the hips transferring from one side to the other. -LBJ I have seen swimming described as a series of glides on your side separated by quick rotations of the body from one side to the other. (I am paraphrasing - and I have a couple of swimming books so I am not sure but I think it was Fitness Swimming by Emmit Hines.) I tried to really focus on this in a workout once. I figured I would do it for the whole workout - hah! I fatigued quickly :( - I guess because I was using my core muscles - larger than the muscles in my arms. BUT - I was faster for the first couple hundred before I fatigued. Since then, I have tried to work it in more gradually. I have improved, but still have a long way to go. One thing that helped is that I do 1500-2000 yards over the course of a week of butterfly kicking without a board. This works the core muscles a lot - especially abs and lower back. So far, I have done this mostly on my stomach, but I want to integrate more on my side and back - the different positions work different muscles. Much like different styles of crunches work different abs. But how does VO2Max play into this.... just kidding.:p