The Fastest Age

Originally posted by swimr4life To be competitive, your start,turn and stroke have to be close to perfect. I am a sprinter and I work very hard at practice. We are all blessed with different abilities (sprint or distance), it doesn't mean that one is better than the other. I also think that good technique takes much less energy than bad technique. Watch an experienced swimmer with good technique versus a beginning swimmer who slaps and fights the water. Ultimately, that would be true. But if someone is starting with bad technique, or no prior knowledge, training with a good technique, and not reverting to something that avoids the use of the 'good technique' underdeveloped muscles is very hard work. After plenty of training and developing what I hear many coaches call "a good swimming base" I' sure taht swimming with good technique mecomes much easier than slapping water. In my case, I'm nowhere near there. Getting flat, dropping my elbows and neglecting to 6-beat kick takes a lot less energy that to pay attention to ll the little aspects of proper form. When I pay attention to it all, it saps my energy out in a few laps. But, I expect that just like - FINALLY - not crossing my arms became second nature, the other things will too... in due time. Sheesh, only took me several months to stop crossing and get used to high elbows on recovery. Now if I could just remember to keep high elbows under water... Man, there's a lazy muscle in there somewhere, cause as soon as i stop thinking about it, they drop. Well, gimmie a few more months, I'll get it eventually. Im sure after that something else will pop out. Sheesh, it never ends ;)

Originally posted by Conniekat8 Now if I could just remember to keep high elbows under water... Man, there's a lazy muscle in there somewhere, cause as soon as i stop thinking about it, they drop. Well, gimmie a few more months, I'll get it eventually. I've swam for 18 yrs. now and I still have to be conscious of keeping my elbows high on my underwater recovery. The good and bad news is I know instantly when I stop doing it. How do I know instantly - tendonitous (sp?). Got it from poor stroke technique. So now whenever I do a bad stroke I get this nice pain in my shoulder. But the upside is it keeps me doing proper technique :) So good luck! And yup there's always something else to work on! Are swimmer perfectionists or masochists? ;)

Originally posted by lefty Why would you write that connie? Do you always insult people to make your point. Who are you to question my intelligence? You're rude. No, Lefty, I rarely insult people, even those who are quite often insulting towards me. I do call people on their contradictions though. Some take it as personal insults. Why would I write that? I thought with your asking me if I was stupid you set the ground rule for rude interactions with you being acceptable. You did say that you can see through the rudeness just few posts ago, separate the rude personal approach from the actual message. I thought I'd try to take your suggestion and see how it works out in practice. I take it you don't like people being rude to you any more than any other person. I offer my sincere apologies for being rude.

OK, I'll come back into the "dog park" and lift my leg....... A few personal observations: - Ion has an incredible passion/obsession for our sport, sadly in forums such as this it is very negative. - Since I've known Ion I've always given him credit for being more fit than most masters swimmers (as well as the general population). He trains exceptionally hard, putting more days/miles into swimming than a lot of high school/college swimmers. - His technique is extremally poor, he has marginal flexibility, he suffers from athsma and breathes side to side every stroke, has no "feel", no streamline, "flop" starts, doesn't race with goggles, doesn't eat right during meets, gets extremally nervous before races and has gotten to the times he's at purely from being "fit" (he is far stronger in the weight room than me). If Ion ever tested his VO2 max he would probably disprove his own theory, its probably far higher that most even without the base training in ages 13-19. - This is where his obession and reality collide, he wants so badly to excel that he's devised "categories" such as "late bloomers" to gain the recognition that his stand alone swimming times can't. If this helps him stay motivated to train everyday more power to him, its the public "challenges" that he issues in these forums that are the biggest problem. Ion, I hope you can find a more zen like relationship to your training. Swimming is a beautiful thing, much of that beauty has little to do with speed or fitness but rather with how you interact with water. My biggest thrill is simple gliding, whether thats off a turn, a start, or on a dive at 100 feet. Find that "feel/balance" and you'll find a whole new experience in the sport you love so much!

I agree for men under 45. In the higher age groups, the times -with a few extraordinary exceptions- are slow. In men 40 to 44 I already know who is who. Ion- If you think top ten 45+ for men is "slow", then you must not be looking at the same top tens that I view online!

Connie, I did go back and read my posts because I had no idea what you were talking about. But I did write, "Do you honestly believe that it is not a disadvantage to start later in life. That is just stupid." I would like to point out that I was not referring to you specifically, but rather your position, however that was justification in my own mind and you are correct to surmise that I would not / do not appreciate such sentiments. So I am truly sorry for what I wrote, I can see how that would be hurtful. Thanks for pointing out the inconsistency. If your response was in direct response to what I wrote, consider your point made.

Originally posted by lefty Connie, I did go back and read my posts because I had no idea what you were talking about. But I did write, "Do you honestly believe that it is not a disadvantage to start later in life. That is just stupid." I would like to point out that I was not referring to you specifically, but rather your position, however that was justification in my own mind and you are correct to surmise that I would not / do not appreciate such sentiments. So I am truly sorry for what I wrote, I can see how that would be hurtful. Thanks for pointing out the inconsistency. If your response was in direct response to what I wrote, consider your point made. Thank you Lefty. Yes, your response did irk me. I'm sorry I was rude in return. Lets forget about those couple of posts? I really prefer to not fight and argue like that. Can we shake hands and make up now :) Please? :)

Craig, that was why I added the last part, about the throwing motion in water polo. The same core muscle mechanics apply, even though there is no solid ground to stand on. (You may have been reading the post, before I got a chance to add that last sentance.) Lefty, I understand what *you* are saying, and I agree with it. But that is not Ion's contention. He dismisses any comparison between him and anyone who swam during their youth (ages 13-17). This is regardless of how the other person has trained (other than the fact that they swam at that age). This would not be worth arguing about, except that Ion hurls abuse at other people, using his "faster" times as an excuse. If he would stick to the merits (like he claims to), and stop using a double standard to justify dismissing other people's arguments, you would see a lot less vitriol on these threads. It is not the fact that he is arguing for his ideas that bugs me; it is *how* he argues them. Paul, let me add this. Ion's accomplishments (which are praiseworthy) would be easier to acknowledge, if he wasn't so busy shouting about how great he is. He doesn't need to put others down in order to raise himself up.

The fastest time for the 10 and younger girls (USS) in 2003, was 26.24, 57.49, 2:01.25, and 5:20.03, in the 50, 100, 200 and 500 freestyle, respectively. These times are fast compared to the major principal involved in this discussion. What is the reason these little girls, who I picture to be around 4’ 10” and weigh about 80 lbs, swim so fast? Do they have phenomenal VO2max? Do they have extra ordinary strength? What other way can you explain these times other than they have good coaches and good technique?

Originally posted by Conniekat8 Thank you Lefty. Yes, your response did irk me. I'm sorry I was rude in return. Lets forget about those couple of posts? I really prefer to not fight and argue like that. Can we shake hands and make up now :) Please? :) Here is my hand extended (insert drawing of hand).