Breaststroke Kick and long legs

Could someone explain the distinction between "whip kick" and "modern whip kick?"

I think its easier with short legs to do the *** kick. But my first coach as a kid was a tall woman from Holland then in her mid-40's back in 1969 and was one of the top breaststrokers in Holland in the 1940's, she work on my glide. *** kick is one of the more difficult moves for many swimmers, a lot of beginners scissor kick it and many swimmers after learning it, the timing is an issue. If a whip kick is easier than the more modern whip kick than go with it.

I think from books that I read some coaches try to get a dolphin-like rhythm in the breaststroke. Drills on sometimes done with *** pull with fly kick. Then the person puts this rhythm with *** kicking. Maybe, her coach is doing something else. Anyway, the more historical kick was a little more wider and didn't have a fly like rhythm to it.

I always thought the distinction was the older *** kick had wide knees and the more modern whip kick had the knees closer together and the action was more from the knees down, where as the older kick involved the whole leg.

The first *** kick used up until the early 1960's was very wide and had more of a glide. The whipped kick came from that and narrow the kick and speed up the glide. Caulkins I think in the late 1970's gave it more of almost a fly motion to it and narrowed it more. That's maybe why some of the newer breaststrokers will be DQ for a fly kick in it because they don't do it correctly.

Originally posted by laineybug I always thought the distinction was the older *** kick had wide knees and the more modern whip kick had the knees closer together and the action was more from the knees down, where as the older kick involved the whole leg. That's pretty much the way my coach explains it.

What I read was the oldest kick was called the frog kick and Chet J in the early 1960's swam first with the whipped kick. Then a more dolphin like rhythm was developed in the states in the late 1970's and then a wave arm pull was done with it in the late 1980's. But I think both of you are talking about the frog kick and the whip style developed in the 1960's. I learn both as a kid.

What have you people done to my favorite stroke?:mad: First dolphin-like rhythm has nothing to do with how the kick is performed. The frog kick is what coaches call the wedge kick, trying to squeeze water with the thighs. The whip kick really is describing the action of the feet and ankles and has nothing to do with how wide apart the knees are. There are two forms of the whip kick now. One is the traditional knees close enough that when finishing the kick the sole of the feet crash together. That should be the only criteria on the kick width. If you are not getting the feet together narrow the width of the knees. The feet are first brought up outside the width of the body to catch water before being quickly straightened out explosively so the heels and sole crash together. The second whip kick I call the W kick. It starts with the knees as wide as the hips to slightly wider. The heels are brought up inside the body width directly behind the butt. The feet start outwards from there in a longer arc until they are again quickly straightened out explosively so the heels and sole crash together. There is less stress on the medial knee joints with this kick, there is less water resistance as the heels are brought up inside the body width instead of outside as the first kick. Connie, See me at the next swim meet. I will help you on your kick. I am sure Mark is describing the kick correctly, sometimes you just need a different look or description for the light bulb to go on in your head and it will all click. Also it can help to go to the faster lanes and watch some of the great breaststrokers kick. Follow behind them and watch the whole motion. The biggest thing you will be amazed how much water is displaced backwards from good kickers. You swim with an Olympic Gold medalist in breaststroke, can't get better than that. Coach Wayne McCauley ASCA Level 5

Originally posted by breastroker Connie, See me at the next swim meet. I will help you on your kick. I am sure Mark is describing the kick correctly, sometimes you just need a different look or description for the light bulb to go on in your head and it will all click. Also it can help to go to the faster lanes and watch some of the great breaststrokers kick. Follow behind them and watch the whole motion. The biggest thing you will be amazed how much water is displaced backwards from good kickers. You swim with an Olympic Gold medalist in breaststroke, can't get better than that. Coach Wayne McCauley ASCA Level 5 Oh, Mark is describing it perfectly. It's ust that I'm having a hard time with 'getting it'. Mark's specialty is breaststroke too. I think my problem is that I used to rollerblade (speedskate) for a some 10 years, so 'whip-like' motion is second nature to me. Where the power comes from a strong push-off generated by the quads, ham and glutes, and the other outer-leg muscles. I'm making an educated guess that my inner-leg muscles, which seem to be instrumental in the breaststroke kick are very under-developed. The moment I need to pay attention to something otherthan 100%focus on my kick, I revert to a wide kick. Knees far apart... I think you are calling it Frog kick, or the wedge kick. I do okay with a kickboard when i isolate the kick, well about 60-70% of the times. I still have to think about it constantly, so guess, with time and practice it will happen. I do watch what call 'fast people' do it, it's helping. (You know, Terry Tongate, Brian, few others on our team.) I think I'm just perturbed, because I had an easier time learning how to juggle, then learning the breatstroke kick. It'll sink in eventually, I guess. Practice Practice Practice. Thank you very very much for your input and explanation :)

I doubt the problem is with the inner thigh muscles. Unless your kick is too wide,the hip adductors primarily give stability,not power.Without seeing your stroke I couldn't make a reccomendation.I'd let Wayne see your stroke as he is the guru. In answer to your original question it is easier for someone with short legs to generate leg speed (hence the success of shorter swimmers such as Kitajima.)