YMCA Nationals

If the meet sets the guidelines for entry, the Y sets the guidelines for membership and the meet is conducted accordingly, what is wrong? What is unethical? What written standards or ethics are violated? Some of us prefer the best competition. You, obviously, prefer competition of your choosing. I could care less if I get schooled at a meet that allows one-day USMS registration or a ringer who registers with USMS the week before a meet. That doesn't make them less of a swimmer or less of a person. USMS and Ys aren't about exclusion, they are about inclusion. I think you should channel all of your negative energy into more productive workouts to allow you to beat the scum-of-the-earth ringers.

Originally posted by aquageek You've gone so far down the slippery slope that I wonder if you knew where you got on the slide. Y Nationals are not the Olympics and not the NCAAs. Drawing that analogy is erroneous. And, I'm not sure how you drew the distinction between Y membership and wearing fins and taking drugs. I don't think anyone would support that. No, but to compete in the Olympics, you must have MEMBERSHIP ie citizenship for that country. And to compete at NCAA's you must belong to and go to school. Just like the YMCA, you should have "membership" to compete. You are concerned about one thing and one thing only - trinkets. All that great work you do at the Y doesn't entitle you to the medals or entitle you to swim the fastest. It entitles you to compete, that's it. Why the great concern? What is the harm? Aren't you still practicing and getting in shape and setting PBs? Can you read my mind? I think not. I'm concerned about fair play and palying by the rules. I enjoy competition and the TEAM concept. Bringing in ringers dilutes my enjoyment - which I have earned. And, as a member, you don't decide the policies on membership, the board of directors for the Y does. And, membership is not conditional on the amount of work a person does. This is the crux of the issue. There are policies on membership. I strenously object to subverting those policies so that someone can swim in a swim meet. I object to those YMCA's that allow someone to buy a discounted membership solely for the purpose of competing at a swim meet. If you are upset because you can't swim fast enough to win medals maybe you should train harder to be as good as the "ringers." Then, you could say you are the fastest, period. You miss the point entirely. It is not about swimming fast. This post is about principals, standards and ethics. Stop whining, start winning!

It strikes me you are venting against the wrong group. The individuals competing in the meet are doing so because they are allowed. They are following the rules as they are outlined. I don't see how you fault them. If you want to go after someone, go after the organization that allows it to happen and that is the YMCA.

I suspect that the "ringers" are just looking for an opportunity to compete. As Masters swimmers, our work schedules and geography limit the number of meets we can enter. I'm planning to go to long course nationals in Savannah because it's close and I can combine it with a family vacation. I doubt these swimmers are going to that much trouble just to pick up medals. And if their local YMCA is sponsoring them, I don't see the problem.

what's a ringer?

We had a rather animated thread a while back on this topic as it relates to USMS Nationals and the so called "ringer" phenomenom. Keep in mind there is no such thing as "a real Y swimmer." Ys are open to anyone and everyone, regardless of ability to pay. It's a Y, for goodness sakes. This whole notion that you are being denied a trinket by someone faster than you who enters late is irrelevant. Don't you want to compete against the best competition, regardless of when they paid their membership? Whether or not a ringer shows up doesn't make you any more or less fast compared to them.

According to the YMCA guidelines - Nationals are open to ANYONE who is a full time member of their YMCA as of 1/16/04. They define a full time member as anyone with a FULL ANNUAL membership and all the rights and privileges of membership. Please join my YMCA; we need more swimmers and your money. We need one more male swimmer in the 35+ bracket to field some relays and a couple of more female swimmers. Here is my two cents. 1) If you join the YMCA on or before Jan 15th and you pay your dues up through Nationals – Come swim. Have a great time at one of the best meets in the country. 2) I will take issue the YMCA that sells a “special” membership or cuts a deal for a group of swimmers just so they can swim at Nationals. That clearly violates the intent and spirit of the meet. I think that is what the “fuss” is all about. See you in Fort Lauderdale, Michael

You've gone so far down the slippery slope that I wonder if you knew where you got on the slide. Y Nationals are not the Olympics and not the NCAAs. Drawing that analogy is erroneous. And, I'm not sure how you drew the distinction between Y membership and wearing fins and taking drugs. I don't think anyone would support that. You are concerned about one thing and one thing only - trinkets. All that great work you do at the Y doesn't entitle you to the medals or entitle you to swim the fastest. It entitles you to compete, that's it. Why the great concern? What is the harm? Aren't you still practicing and getting in shape and setting PBs? And, as a member, you don't decide the policies on membership, the board of directors for the Y does. And, membership is not conditional on the amount of work a person does. If you are upset because you can't swim fast enough to win medals maybe you should train harder to be as good as the "ringers." Then, you could say you are the fastest, period. Stop whining, start winning!

If all the "ringers" happened to be 25 year old men who couldn't break two minutes for a 50 free, would we still be having this discussion?

I agree wholeheartedly with your post, and I'm glad you have addressed this matter out in the open. It makes the idea of keeping team scores quite meaningless imho when a YMCA fields a team that consists of people who have never set foot in that Y.