best 1500m free times

Originally posted by mark_varney47 Do people feel that they can learn a lot in a week to be able to change their swimming style permanently?? Mark Varney There si a lot of info you can pick up at a swim clinic, even within a span of couple of hours. Then, it will take you months and months of practice to incorporate experiment and fine tune it in your stroke. Just make sure that you don't forget most of it. Some things will probably sink in right away, with others, it will take time. The way I look at things, I rarely miss an oportunity to learn something new. It's always worth it, but, that's just the way i look at it. If I learn something new now, even if I don't use it right away, it might come in handy sometime in the future.

My coach times me in the 1500 with a Calander.

Well spotted Mattson!!!!!My time for 100m should have read 2min 5 secs,LOL:D

I'll say a word in support of Mattson. You can use training to overcome mediocre stroke technique in the middle distance events, 200-400. But for a mile, you can't get away from your technique. Eventually, you will no longer be able to flog yourself into going faster than your sustainable speed (in his book Fitness Swimming , Emmett Hines calls it your "cruise pace"). Improving that means improving technique. As far as that is concerned, there are lots of good articles out there. Some of Emmett's best are available in the Training...Technique section of this web site. The key concept is reduce drag, and go father for each stroke you take, i.e. use fewer strokes per lap. I know I sound like a broken record on this, but I have used Total Immersion with good success. Mark V, if TI comes through your area in the U.K., you may find their weekend seminar useful, if not cheap. I would also agree with Mattson that making permanent stroke improvements will take months of consciously working on fine points, but the good news is that you do see initial progress much sooner than that. I have been using TI drills for over 2.5 years now, and their are some drills that I think I mastered only a couple of months ago. Really dialing in these improvements takes much more than a one weekend seminar, but it is far more interesting than just pounding yardage. I last did a pool mile about a year ago, a 1650 SCY, in about 22:08. However, I did the Big Shoulders 5K open water in about 1:05:and-something. (The race organizers did admit towards the end of the race that they might have missed a bit laying out the course, so...we have the usual imprecision that makes open water swimming so delightfully unpredictable.) Matt

i find it very difficult counting my strokes and doing the strokes properly at the same time,i think that if i count them they differ from when i dont count them.

Mark, 22-25 is a little high. I'm thinking I can sustain 18, maybe better since I have not worked-out in a SCM pool for some time. I have also found that I can go much lower when I do 25's focused only on stroke length, but that is not a realistic measure for racing, or longer sets. In other words, compare drill 25's to drill 25's, and racing stroke counts to racing stroke counts. The good news is that you appear to have a good opportunity to get faster with improved stroke mechanics. I should also mention that Emmett Hines has something he calls the virtual coach. I am a little vague as to its details, but my general understanding is that you video tape yourself swimming, then send it to him for critique. That may be useful since you live some distance away from the kind of coaching you'd like. You can try his team's site www.H2Oustonswims.org to see if they have any more details. Sparx, yes when I count strokes, I seem to involuntarily lengthen my stroke, even when I am not actively trying to do this. Since I often find myself trading off stroke length with oxygen debt, I pick and chose when I do count strokes during a hard set. Better to complete the set, that go out great and boink half-way through. And, if I really want to focus on mechanics and stroke length, I will intentionally swim in a slower lane to avoid boinking. Matt's homily of the day: avoid interval envy. Make sure your interval is matched to your ability and the objective for your workout. You are not a slave to the interval; it should be vice-versa. Matt

Mattson and Matt S, Thanks for that advice.I will now split my sessions between cardio work and technique work.Just out of interest what sort of stroke count do you guys do for a 1500m swim.I'm doing 20-22 strokes per 25m lap for my swims.:p

Hi MV, Bilateral breathing is emphasized, just because you are more likely to have a balanced stroke than if you breathe to one side only. (The latter is bad, because you will tend to speed up on your strong side, and slow down on your weak side. Water friction penalizes that type of motion.) So if you *can* breath bi-laterally, then that no longer becomes the issue. The question is, do you want to breathe every 2 strokes, 3, 4? Which side is the competition that you are watching? Oxygen debt and 1500 should never be used in the same sentence! :cool: For 500 yards and over, there will be cards (provided by the meet organizers) to keep track of the number of lengths that you swim. Now, you just need someone on your team willing to do the counting for you! (The cards are odd numbers only, and are inserted in the water before your flipturn. There are a set of bright orange cards that are used with 1 length to go, to wake you up.)

Originally posted by mattson Bilateral breathing is emphasized, just because you are more likely to have a balanced stroke than if you breathe to one side only. (The latter is bad, because you will tend to speed up on your strong side, and slow down on your weak side. Water friction penalizes that type of motion.) So if you *can* breath bi-laterally, then that no longer becomes the issue. Definitely emphasize the "if you can." There have been many incredible swimmers with a very pronounced asymmetry to their strokes. Tom Dolan, for example, and he swam a 1650 yard free in around 14:30, I believe. In my opinion the advantage of getting more oxygen offsets the advantage you might get by having a more symmetric stroke.

Matt S, Thanks I appreciate that advise and the contact details about Emmett Hines.When you are swimming a 1500m do you breathe bilaterally??Does the oxygen debt get to you after a while when using this breathing style??Also how do you remember exactly how many laps you have done while you are swimming a 1500m session??My target for January and February is to do a regular stroke count of 18 strokes for a 1500m session. :D Mark