Boring

I think the 200 IMer is the best all-around swimmer because the race requires 1. all 4 strokes 2. a combination of speed and endurance The 400 IM is too much an endurance race to get my vote for best all-around test. BTW, I am not an IMer at all. what's all the fuss about going off-topic into politics, etc.? Swimming talk can get boring in a hurry.

I for one agree with the admin folks on this one! I come here to read and talk about swimming! Maybe they would let you all start a separate Forum to talk about political issues, that way if and when people want to get in on it, they can, and it wouldn't be taking up room in this one.

Its not Ion's opinions that need censoring. His attitude needs to change. That plus the fact he was trying, imho, to get a public apology when none was necessary was just the last straw in a lot of folks minds. Heck, even me, the defender of all water aerobersizers, floaters and little ole ladies everywhere got ticked off and came down very hard on him. Lainey

There are occasional lulls, but on the whole I do not find this discussion board to be boring. In any case, I certainly have found the advice to be helpful. As to political discussions, there are two issues. First, the owners of this discussion board have every right to set forth the rules of engagement, and delete posts and ban posters in accordance with those rules. This should not be misconstrued as (the evil form of) "censorship", a term that only applies when the *government* tries to squash protected speech. Secondly, there's the question of whether we really want to go down that road (i.e., political discussions). I've seen a couple other forums seriouly disrupted by political discussions -- long-term members leaving, new members being turned off, e-friendships strained. (I admit I was one of the culprits, but I won't tell you which way I lean.) I believe we ought to keep this board dedicated to swimming related topics only, broadly construed, with moderators actively enforcing the rules. With some reservations I would suggest opening another board, unmoderated, open to all topics (of course, nothing unsuitable for minors, and nothing that would result in racketeering indictments).

Here is my two cents, 1) Political subjects are polarizing and emotionally charged. I get my fill of the political debates from the radio, work and newspapers. I come to this site to escape that stress and support the swimming community. I enjoy the debates on Nationals and TI. I read the workouts. I'm inspired by the stories of the brand new swimmers, the national record holders and those returning to the sport after many years. 2) As to Ion - Some of his posts went over the line and I question his point of view. He has a right to his opinion and I have a right to ignore it. However, he does not have the right to personally attack people. As long as he isn't being abusive or using this forum to promote inappropriate subjects, he should be allowed to post. If he (or anyone) can't abide by common rules of civility - they should be banned. Haven't we all been taught that if you don't have something nice to say - don't say it? I swim because it makes me feel better and I enjoy being part of a community that isn't politcal or religous. Our common bond is the water. We shouldn't let this board become a forum for political debate or personal attacks. Michael

Arcuni: good one :p

I think that when Ion was talking about how good he was as a swimmer and he compared himself in freestyle to middle aged women is because he felt a little inferior. There's a lot of men in the 45-49 year old age group that made nationals back in the 1970's and having them beat him 10 seconds in a 100 yard free made him feel bad. But he would be in the top 10 in women in the 45 to 49 year old age group. Maybe, he should of thought that way. I understand some of his disappointment. After coming back in the sport I'm a lot slower but I was a very average swimmer as a kid, some strokes A times and some strokes B times.

ok, call me lost...but what did Ion do or say that was controversial? (I've read some of his postings...but apparently I've missed what Laineybug and some others are talking about.) TGIF, Jerrycat ;)

I keep my eyes on several discussion groups, and I've noticed that they all seem to have "bad" times, times when I wonder why I bother keeping an eye on them. Then, they swing back to being good, and I remember why I keep coming back. In general, I think politics should be minimized. There are many good places to discuss current events; there aren't as many for swimming. However, one political/swimming question does come to mind. Would the US be better off if we had a dedicated lap-swimmer President? I'd like to think so--and it would certainly help get more people interested in swimming.

Originally posted by Jc2000 However, one political/swimming question does come to mind. Would the US be better off if we had a dedicated lap-swimmer President? I'd like to think so--and it would certainly help get more people interested in swimming. According to Newsweek, there is a dedicated swimmer running this year -- Wesley Clark. Since Gen. Clark seems to be a front runner, as of now, there's a possibility we may get "swimmer president." Just for information and not necessarily an endorsement (so that this post isn't considered to be too overtly "political" :p).