Enjoyed the articles about us ordinary people

Ion: Thanks for your reply. While much of it rambled off target, I truly appreciate that you finally tried to respond to the issues, and stopped your personal crusade to identify me and compare times. Believe me, neither one of us want to go there. You must take care not to generalize. I agree there are many people who are lazy and ignore fitness to their own detriment. That was your point, and a very good one. I appreciate gull80's comments, which are better than my own. On the other hand, Ion, there are many overweight people who try very hard day after day to improve. They want to look like you, do the right things, but don't get there. They were born with a condition they cannot totally remove. Perhaps you have an accent? You would not appreciate anyone railing on you for that. I don't think that SWIM Magazine has been "cajoling fat and unhealty people." Rather, it tries to be inclusive to the new faces out there discovering the benefits of swimming. Do you really think it's better to ignore or even offend them? Come on, Ion. Many of those new faces are not as thin and fit as you. We all have to start somewhere if we choose to take up the sport. Some start later and some start heavier than others. As a late-bloomer, you of all people should understand this concept. You've reminded us so many times how much you have improved since joining. Hopefully noone slammed you as you started your climb. I think it's great that SWIM features newcomers who aspire to improve, even when they aren't as fit as the great Ion Beza (or your average Olympian). Yet, Ion, you slam them for existing and you slam SWIM for acknowledging their efforts. Isn't that counterproductive to our sport? You've been told by others that there are at least one or two other publications that focus on fitness, technical and elite topics. That's great. I've been a fan of those publications for 25 years. However, there is definately a place for SWIM Magazine. It serves a different purpose. Masters swimming thrives on an influx of new members. Many of the new faces are adults who seek to better themselves after years of neglect. That's a healthy and inclusive goal, and USMS is a healthy and inclusive group. Ion, if you still don't get it, then don't read it. And go away. It's that simple. Certainly don't criticize the articles about beginners or average swimmers. Those are good people you do not know. At the next Nationals, try to rub elbows with a few of them (at least as much as you try to rub elbows with the names you dropped in your latest reply). They were like you at age 28 . . . excited to be starting a new passion. Your life will be richer. Thousands of us enjoy the "fluff" (as you call it) next to the stories about the technical and/or elite. Those of us who have competed and placed on the national level in USMS and USS don't try to exclude you because you do a 2:30 200 meter free. Rather, we applaud and envy your ability to get faster as an adult (while most of us with the solid background get slower). That's what masters swimming is about, or at least part of it!

After I posted my last message I realized that what I said may have been misleading. I want to clarify now before someone calls me on it. The article I was referring to was to be in a local publication. Elaine

Back to the original comment: I, too, liked the issue of Swim, and did enjoy the articles on the average women, as it helped to put my own training in context... I get a little fed up sometimes with the superfit swimmers in my pool. Don't get me wrong, it's great to train with the elite swimmers, but it can be a bit frustrating to consistently be the slowest... So, it was nice to read about other swimmers who were overcoming adversity to swim...

Well, Ion a lot of heavy set people in California come from poor immirgant backgounnds and many of them are the children of immirgants. Hispanics make up 32 percent of the state, and while they are middle upper class slender hispanics there are a lot overweight people among the lower income classes and hispanics make up a larger portion of lower income people. Granted, there slender people among the poor working classes and heavy set people the upper middle class. But the people that jog or swim or run are more likely to belong in the upper-middle class. So, some people don't have the same opportunities you do to exercise.

I relate to what you are saying Eliana. I never been that good as a kid or an adult. And many people who start in the sport past 40 years old can't be at the top, some do but its getting harder as more and more young people come from an elite background that did it as teenagers and young adults. Its nice to cover us that are not different from the rest of the population that swims laps.

Originally posted by c j Ion: ... Those of us who have competed and placed on the national level in USMS and USS don't try to exclude you because you do a 2:30 200 meter free. ... I swam that 200 meter free on July 27, minutes after finishing a 800 meter free. And after training 35,500 yards the week before. I was telling people that I have some spectacular races in me. To be done in the 2003 Long Course Nationals, after three weeks of taper. I started tapering July 28, but August 10 -four days before my first event in the 2003 Long Course Nationals-, I recognized that financially I wasn't able to travel to the meet. So I didn't go to the 2003 Long Course Nationals and unleash the races in me.

Well, I agree with you about the late swimming in the sport. I could complain about taking 25 years off and that explains why I swim 13 seconds slower in the *** at a 100 meter swim. But the language problem is real many immirgants do have problems with written English and Ion is much better than most. The state he is from many immirgants didn't even have a grade school education and can not write either English or Spanish since many of them come from rural parts of Mexico or Central America or Southeast Asian countries like Laos and can't write in either English or Laoan.

Ion . . . Let's just pretend I've never swam . . . can't tell a starting block from a stopwatch. The sport just interests me, and I'm just curious what your beef is with fat people and a magazine called SWIM. With me so far? Now, can you defend yourself without getting sidetracked? Still waiting . . .

Claims that are made, should be verifiable by checking the claim and the identity of the claimant. Like in my case. Otherwise, the claims are null.

The vast majority of people who get up and got to a pool to swim are not associated with USMS, I'd like to see more of them come on board. The ones I've spoken with have no interest in competing, but they would most likely benefit from coaching and the "social" side of what USMS has to offer. Maybe this involvement lead to trying meet sometime or possibly they volunteer to help run our meets, maybe they become more committed to fitness, weight lose, overcoming Parkinsons, or just making friends. If we are going to attract and keep these folks then we need to include role models for them and that isn't from articles about so called "elite" masters swimmers. Those of us who fall into this "elite" category (defined by records, top 10, participation at meets, pushing for NQTs :D , etc), most likely are driven much more by internal motivation than relying on Swim magazine (no offense Phil & Bill). It saddens me to think that anyone would seek to elevate their own self esteem by looking down on, judging, comparing to others, or creating "standards" of measurment to their unique position in life in order to stand out. A couple of thoughts that motivate me: "Carpe Diem" "First do no harm" "Winning isn't everything, a desire to is"