TI Question...heard this and doesn't sound right...
Former Member
I am teaching a stroke clinic class at the YMCA. My background is USS competitive swimming (ages 8-18) and some age-group coaching. One of my students, a triathlon trainer, has been to Total Immersion. Because of his TI training, he is doubtful of any stroke correction I am giving him. Basically he has the typical problems of a short stroke...entering too close to the head and not pulling thru.
The TI triathlete is telling me that the TI "Fish" style swimming technique says the hand should enter the water just in front of the head, then reach forward. In my opinion, he needs to lengthen his stroke, rotating and reaching as far forward as possible, entering out front (not by the head). I am thinking he is mixing up some TI drill with proper freestyle SWIMMING technique. He at least agreed with me when we talked distance per stroke (and started believing I know something about swimming)...but I don't see how you can maximize DPS with hand entry by the head.
Can someone shed light on this for me? What is this "Fish" swimming in a couple sentences? And where does TI say the hand entry should be?
Thank you!!
P.S. I'm new here and enjoying reading...I swim masters and hope to compete in butterfly someday...I'm waiting it out until I get a bit older so can face the competition. My butterfly has held out better than my other strokes (used to be a long distance freestyler too).
P.P.S. I did a search on TI and read some of the posts but they didn't quite get to my specific question above.
Parents
Former Member
I have been away for the weekend and come back to 27 emails for this topic. For the record I do not want to be known as a critic of TI. I have been a TI swimmer for the last 5 years, the purposeful swimming and their drill progressions are the foundation of both my swimming and my coaching. As i have said in other posts all of my swimmers do the TI drills and they work wonders for novice swimmers. I do think that mastering balance in the water is essential. TI swimming instruction is certainly much better than the long kickbord sets and pull sets so common elsewhere.
Terry Laughlin answered 1 of my points. I have noticed that some swimmers who have experience of TI have a hand entry which goes into the water and then scoops up to the surface before the catch. I am pleased that TI coaches have picked up on this. My other point was on stroke timing, Terry does say in his latest book that that Front Quadrant Swimming was the most negotiable of the features of TI. I guess it comes down to how long is the glide and does the supposed reduction in drag from holding that position outweigh the slow-down from the gap in the propulsive phases that results. I would like more info, maybe some one should do a comparitive study of the 2 techniques side by side.
I know from my own swimming that if you hold the glide too long then you definitely do lose velocity. I do augment the TI drills with many others. Ti at present is missing drills that work on developing aspects of the Breaststroke kick, backstroke pull and some parts of fly and free strokes. I do like their drill progressions for fly and *** tho. I also feel that while long stroke length is important, so is maintaining a high Stroke rate.
I would like to see Total Immersion give more emphasis on how to swim fast and win those races. If TI practitioners started to be the race winners then attitudes would soon change. With my swimming, I have developed a very quiet, smooth, long stroke, 11 to 15 for 25 yards ( no bubbles on my stroke! ). However my stroke rate is very low, 21 cycles/min on distance swims and 25 cycles/min on 50 metre sprints. I am working to raise that now as I want to win my races. Being the most elegant swimmer, with the slowest turnover, as my wife describes me is not good enough.
BTW, according to Magaschilo in "Swimming Fastest" the straight arm recovery in free should only be used by Fly swimmers as they have the skill to control the lateral deviation that can result. Also 'Australian Crawl' is not a straight arm recovery, it is more a forward shift of the shoulder and a high degree of medial rotation in the initial catch phase.
I have been away for the weekend and come back to 27 emails for this topic. For the record I do not want to be known as a critic of TI. I have been a TI swimmer for the last 5 years, the purposeful swimming and their drill progressions are the foundation of both my swimming and my coaching. As i have said in other posts all of my swimmers do the TI drills and they work wonders for novice swimmers. I do think that mastering balance in the water is essential. TI swimming instruction is certainly much better than the long kickbord sets and pull sets so common elsewhere.
Terry Laughlin answered 1 of my points. I have noticed that some swimmers who have experience of TI have a hand entry which goes into the water and then scoops up to the surface before the catch. I am pleased that TI coaches have picked up on this. My other point was on stroke timing, Terry does say in his latest book that that Front Quadrant Swimming was the most negotiable of the features of TI. I guess it comes down to how long is the glide and does the supposed reduction in drag from holding that position outweigh the slow-down from the gap in the propulsive phases that results. I would like more info, maybe some one should do a comparitive study of the 2 techniques side by side.
I know from my own swimming that if you hold the glide too long then you definitely do lose velocity. I do augment the TI drills with many others. Ti at present is missing drills that work on developing aspects of the Breaststroke kick, backstroke pull and some parts of fly and free strokes. I do like their drill progressions for fly and *** tho. I also feel that while long stroke length is important, so is maintaining a high Stroke rate.
I would like to see Total Immersion give more emphasis on how to swim fast and win those races. If TI practitioners started to be the race winners then attitudes would soon change. With my swimming, I have developed a very quiet, smooth, long stroke, 11 to 15 for 25 yards ( no bubbles on my stroke! ). However my stroke rate is very low, 21 cycles/min on distance swims and 25 cycles/min on 50 metre sprints. I am working to raise that now as I want to win my races. Being the most elegant swimmer, with the slowest turnover, as my wife describes me is not good enough.
BTW, according to Magaschilo in "Swimming Fastest" the straight arm recovery in free should only be used by Fly swimmers as they have the skill to control the lateral deviation that can result. Also 'Australian Crawl' is not a straight arm recovery, it is more a forward shift of the shoulder and a high degree of medial rotation in the initial catch phase.
