TI Question...heard this and doesn't sound right...
Former Member
I am teaching a stroke clinic class at the YMCA. My background is USS competitive swimming (ages 8-18) and some age-group coaching. One of my students, a triathlon trainer, has been to Total Immersion. Because of his TI training, he is doubtful of any stroke correction I am giving him. Basically he has the typical problems of a short stroke...entering too close to the head and not pulling thru.
The TI triathlete is telling me that the TI "Fish" style swimming technique says the hand should enter the water just in front of the head, then reach forward. In my opinion, he needs to lengthen his stroke, rotating and reaching as far forward as possible, entering out front (not by the head). I am thinking he is mixing up some TI drill with proper freestyle SWIMMING technique. He at least agreed with me when we talked distance per stroke (and started believing I know something about swimming)...but I don't see how you can maximize DPS with hand entry by the head.
Can someone shed light on this for me? What is this "Fish" swimming in a couple sentences? And where does TI say the hand entry should be?
Thank you!!
P.S. I'm new here and enjoying reading...I swim masters and hope to compete in butterfly someday...I'm waiting it out until I get a bit older so can face the competition. My butterfly has held out better than my other strokes (used to be a long distance freestyler too).
P.P.S. I did a search on TI and read some of the posts but they didn't quite get to my specific question above.
Parents
Former Member
Terry, thanks for the lengthy response. I am having trouble picturing this swimming form and my image is one of an inefficient swimmer. Perhaps what you're saying makes sense for a new swimmer with balance problems. But is it really t he most efficient way to swim freestyle?
YOu said:
1) keep the hand as close to the surface as possible on recovery
DO YOU MEAN WITH HIGH ELBOWS?
2) have the hand out of the water as briefly as possible on recovery (i.e. re-enter close to the head)
SO YOU RECOMMEND SHORTENING THE STROKE?
3) angle the hand downward from entry to it was below the head at full extension (also fingertips-below-wrist and hand-below-elbow)
I CAN"T PICTURE THIS...IS THE SWIMMER REACHING FORWARD, OR JUST DOWNWARD?
I guess my trouble with this is that although this approach may help teach non-swimmers to swim, it is not really proper competitive swimming technique (my opinion based on information in this post...argue away folks!). I do think that some world class swimmers may incorporate some TI techniques, whether they learned it thru TI or not (and in most cases I suspect they were trained this way w/out TI). But when we are talking about things that sound so basically wrong (like entering by the head)...that's when people question the approach.
I think it's hard for an already inefficient swimmer to do a lot of experimentation, since a new swimmer will often get confused by different feedback. This guy, for instance, is confused by all the drills he did at TI and can't put them into their proper place and figure out how to SWIM. Honestly, I think a new swimmer needs very consistent feedback about how to improve his/her stroke, focusing on one thing at a time (ie, the post yesterday about the new swimmer who needs to get his hips up).
Please don't take this as anti-TI. As a matter of fact, my own freestyle fell apart after my competitive swimming career (almost 20yrs ago now) and I bet I could benefit from it. I still plan to view the video. It's the confusion that bothers me...and I can't quite put my finger on the other issue...but why are the TIers (mostly triathletes and newers swimmers) learning different technique than established competitive swimming principles...unless we are admitting here that TI is not for the world class swimmer (and it doesn't sound like the TI advocates agree with this), but more for those learning as an adult with serious stroke flaws (TI advocates, is this the more appropriate audience for TI?).
Terry, thanks for the lengthy response. I am having trouble picturing this swimming form and my image is one of an inefficient swimmer. Perhaps what you're saying makes sense for a new swimmer with balance problems. But is it really t he most efficient way to swim freestyle?
YOu said:
1) keep the hand as close to the surface as possible on recovery
DO YOU MEAN WITH HIGH ELBOWS?
2) have the hand out of the water as briefly as possible on recovery (i.e. re-enter close to the head)
SO YOU RECOMMEND SHORTENING THE STROKE?
3) angle the hand downward from entry to it was below the head at full extension (also fingertips-below-wrist and hand-below-elbow)
I CAN"T PICTURE THIS...IS THE SWIMMER REACHING FORWARD, OR JUST DOWNWARD?
I guess my trouble with this is that although this approach may help teach non-swimmers to swim, it is not really proper competitive swimming technique (my opinion based on information in this post...argue away folks!). I do think that some world class swimmers may incorporate some TI techniques, whether they learned it thru TI or not (and in most cases I suspect they were trained this way w/out TI). But when we are talking about things that sound so basically wrong (like entering by the head)...that's when people question the approach.
I think it's hard for an already inefficient swimmer to do a lot of experimentation, since a new swimmer will often get confused by different feedback. This guy, for instance, is confused by all the drills he did at TI and can't put them into their proper place and figure out how to SWIM. Honestly, I think a new swimmer needs very consistent feedback about how to improve his/her stroke, focusing on one thing at a time (ie, the post yesterday about the new swimmer who needs to get his hips up).
Please don't take this as anti-TI. As a matter of fact, my own freestyle fell apart after my competitive swimming career (almost 20yrs ago now) and I bet I could benefit from it. I still plan to view the video. It's the confusion that bothers me...and I can't quite put my finger on the other issue...but why are the TIers (mostly triathletes and newers swimmers) learning different technique than established competitive swimming principles...unless we are admitting here that TI is not for the world class swimmer (and it doesn't sound like the TI advocates agree with this), but more for those learning as an adult with serious stroke flaws (TI advocates, is this the more appropriate audience for TI?).
