TI Question...heard this and doesn't sound right...
Former Member
I am teaching a stroke clinic class at the YMCA. My background is USS competitive swimming (ages 8-18) and some age-group coaching. One of my students, a triathlon trainer, has been to Total Immersion. Because of his TI training, he is doubtful of any stroke correction I am giving him. Basically he has the typical problems of a short stroke...entering too close to the head and not pulling thru.
The TI triathlete is telling me that the TI "Fish" style swimming technique says the hand should enter the water just in front of the head, then reach forward. In my opinion, he needs to lengthen his stroke, rotating and reaching as far forward as possible, entering out front (not by the head). I am thinking he is mixing up some TI drill with proper freestyle SWIMMING technique. He at least agreed with me when we talked distance per stroke (and started believing I know something about swimming)...but I don't see how you can maximize DPS with hand entry by the head.
Can someone shed light on this for me? What is this "Fish" swimming in a couple sentences? And where does TI say the hand entry should be?
Thank you!!
P.S. I'm new here and enjoying reading...I swim masters and hope to compete in butterfly someday...I'm waiting it out until I get a bit older so can face the competition. My butterfly has held out better than my other strokes (used to be a long distance freestyler too).
P.P.S. I did a search on TI and read some of the posts but they didn't quite get to my specific question above.
Parents
Former Member
Sharil, I think understanding what TI tell the swimmers in their clinic would help. Your swimmer will have been told that reducing drag is of the greatest importance. TI wants the entry hand in the water early so as to lengthen the body line " longer vessels create less drag ". If your explanations mention drag reduction then he will be more receptive.
Does his hand enter at too steep an angle, causing drag as the water pushes against the forearm as it moves into the water? It seems from your post that this is the case. TI says to "extend hand as if putting hand into a coat sleeve" if you use this metaphor but get him to enter a bit further forward then it may work.
Another fault i see with a lot of TI swimmers is that they are told to reach as far forward as possible, " extend hand towards the end of the pool ". Many interperet this in this way: hand enters water near head and is then extended forward and moves up to near the surface as they are reaching as far forward as possible.
The hand then has a long way to move to get into the catch and has created drag as it rises up to the surface. Again TI language says " not to reach directly down into the water on entry" this is good advice for most swimmers but may not be in this case.
I feel that the biggest hole in TI instruction is in stroke timing. A half 'catch up' style is the goal. Popov is mentioned a lot but the kayak style of stroke timing that he swims is not mentioned at all. The correct timing to create continuos propulsion and transfer momentum from finishing hand to hand starting catch is not taught there.
The average TI swimmer does not have the great kick which is needed to keep moving forward during the 'dead spot' that a 'half catch-up' stroke creates. Just because Thorpe can swim like that does not mean that the rest of us should swim that way.
Your swimmer will have a lot of good info on drag reduction, but will judge you on how what you say checks with TI philosophy. You can't win unless you become a TI coach, all you need for this is to spend $2,000 on their courses and at least a $500 to $1,000 per year fee therafter, with more money ($300 to $500) for refresher courses every 2 years. I am not making this up, it is on their website. The TI discussion boards are always full of praise for TI, in the last 3 years I have not seen any critical posts there. So to sum up there is a lot of good stuff in TI but there are gaps and the unquestioning acceptance of their way or the highway needs to change. BTW there is not a single TI coach who has coached a swimmer into the world rankings.
Sharil, I think understanding what TI tell the swimmers in their clinic would help. Your swimmer will have been told that reducing drag is of the greatest importance. TI wants the entry hand in the water early so as to lengthen the body line " longer vessels create less drag ". If your explanations mention drag reduction then he will be more receptive.
Does his hand enter at too steep an angle, causing drag as the water pushes against the forearm as it moves into the water? It seems from your post that this is the case. TI says to "extend hand as if putting hand into a coat sleeve" if you use this metaphor but get him to enter a bit further forward then it may work.
Another fault i see with a lot of TI swimmers is that they are told to reach as far forward as possible, " extend hand towards the end of the pool ". Many interperet this in this way: hand enters water near head and is then extended forward and moves up to near the surface as they are reaching as far forward as possible.
The hand then has a long way to move to get into the catch and has created drag as it rises up to the surface. Again TI language says " not to reach directly down into the water on entry" this is good advice for most swimmers but may not be in this case.
I feel that the biggest hole in TI instruction is in stroke timing. A half 'catch up' style is the goal. Popov is mentioned a lot but the kayak style of stroke timing that he swims is not mentioned at all. The correct timing to create continuos propulsion and transfer momentum from finishing hand to hand starting catch is not taught there.
The average TI swimmer does not have the great kick which is needed to keep moving forward during the 'dead spot' that a 'half catch-up' stroke creates. Just because Thorpe can swim like that does not mean that the rest of us should swim that way.
Your swimmer will have a lot of good info on drag reduction, but will judge you on how what you say checks with TI philosophy. You can't win unless you become a TI coach, all you need for this is to spend $2,000 on their courses and at least a $500 to $1,000 per year fee therafter, with more money ($300 to $500) for refresher courses every 2 years. I am not making this up, it is on their website. The TI discussion boards are always full of praise for TI, in the last 3 years I have not seen any critical posts there. So to sum up there is a lot of good stuff in TI but there are gaps and the unquestioning acceptance of their way or the highway needs to change. BTW there is not a single TI coach who has coached a swimmer into the world rankings.
