We're a few weeks out from the 10th FINA World Championship and the war of the words between US vs Australia has begun. As reported in swiminfo Talbot (former Australian coach and now full-time minister of propaganda) just fired the first salvo in the continung swimming war between the US vs Australia.
Commenting on Phelps recent 200 IM world record, Talbot noted that the US is looking for someone to top their Thorpe for best swimmer in the world and, in a transparent attempt to psyche the young Phelps, noted that in "Phelps had done nothing yet" and has everything to prove and Thorpe is still the best inthe world...blah...blah...blah.
The Aussies have mounted a campaign that their Thorpie will challenge Spitz for four individual golds at Athens. Too bad for them that Thorpes fourth event is the 200 IM and Phelps has just made that task much more difficult.
Meanwhile, as to Talbot's statement that "Phelps has done nothing yet" in international competition. What about his gold medal and world record inthe 200 fly at 9th FINA World Championship weeks after he turned 16? How about his performances in the 400 IM AGAINST the world's best (just happened to be the US Eric Vendt) in the 400 IM last summer? How about swimming head-to-head ALL THE TIME against the best in the world in the 200 fly (just happens to be another American Tom Malchow)? Only one of Phelps world records weren't set against the best in the world and that was his 200 IM last week in Santa Clara.
In fact, I maintain that Phelps is already the better swimmer than Thorpe. He has three world records (200 IM/400 IM/200 FLY) and will soon have his fourth (100FLY) demonstrating a range of male swimming talent not seen since Mark Spitz.
Since turning 16 he has proven unbeatable in his events in head-to-head competition against the best in the world (Thorpe's record is not good in that record especially at the big show). The only thing missing from Phelps resume is a stellar Olympics (does Thorpe really have one?
How about it--who's the best male swimmer in the world RIGHT NOW. Thorpe or Phelps?
I say Phelps no contest. It's Thorpe who's coming into Worlds
with something to prove. Is he healthy-both physically and mentally. How will the change in coaching work out? Does he still
have what it takes to win? WILL HE DUCK PHELPS IN HEAD-TO-HEAD MATCH UP IN THE 200 IM? In this contest, Phelps has the advantage before the gun goes off not Thorpe. How about that Talbot?
What do you guys think?
Former Member
O.K. Mantle over Snider BUT Mays over Mantle.
Biondi over Popov (same reasons as Kaelonj) BUT Popov's story not completely written. If he can win gold in Athens then he might triumph due to longevity AND fact that he did beat Biondi And Jager head-to-head 13 years ago! (A case of another dynamic duo upset by a youngun and as P. Cruise points out it could happen again!)
BTW, can't make it to Olympics in Athens then go to Olympic Trials. In some ways, even more exciting and definitely more dramatic because if you finish third you walk away with "nothing". On the other hand, once you've made the team you are an Olympian for life and don't even need to final. In other words the real agony of defeat is at trials not the Olympics.
Can still buy tickets at: http://www.longbeach2004.com/
So Matt, you "don't care" as you said, but you write two of the longest posts in the history of the forum? Take it easy pal - it is, as someone wrote, just a Mickey Mantle vs Duke Snider debate. Seltzer and I already know that this debate doesn't mean anything, and doesn’t accomplish anything, it was just meant to be fun. I suppose that is the difference between our posts and yours...
Lefty's got it "right". All of the above was meant in the spirit of the Mantle vs Snider or Bonds vs Mays, etc. The whole point is to have fun with the sport and to generate some interest. In fact, many in USA swimming are trying to create JUST SUCH AN INTEREST (see Duel in the Pool) and Tablot's comments are great in that they stoke such a very good rivalry. And let's face it--swimming fans (and the greater American public) will be comparing Thorpe and Phelps right after the World Championship and into the Olympics. I see nothing wrong with that if it increases the popular interest in our sport.
BTW on a somewhat unrelated note we (that means NEM) routinely use "performance measures" to "compare" One Hour Swim performances for precisely the purpose that you worry about above. It's a TREMENDOUS motivated for "older" swimmers. The vast majority of our members think it's "neat" that we compare a 25 year old 5,000 yard performance to a 75 year old 3,875 yard performance because it gives the latter his only chance to "compete" against the former. I do admit that this "performance measure" is only a "model" with all the usual flaws that one finds with such assumptins. It's fun nevertheless.
If we can't "compare" across distances/strokes then it would make no sense to have "athletes of the year" and that sort of thing. Besides, it IS fun to argue endlessly about the most idiotic details (sounds like marriage, in that regard).
Track & Field News does a pretty good job every December of ranking within events and even across events.
Mantle vs. Snider? Mantle, clearly. See Bill James' "The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract." God, I love that book.
-LBJ
Popov is at a disadvantage in relays because Russia doesn't not have the depth that the US does. Its true that Blondi did the 200 yard freestyle and the 100 fly in his earlier international career on that note he is better than Popov. But relays depend upon 4 swimmers not 1 swimmer. Also, the new rules makes it difficult for swimmers to win multple events-there are three rounds instead of 2 like in Spitz's day. And the real competition on the international scene is the ladies. In Spitz's day he won the 100 yard swim in 54, some odd seconds. The ladies winner from Japan only posted a 1:03 something. In the last olympics Lars F. won the 100 fly in 52 while Inky won the ladies event in 56 something. So, the ladies have become a lot more competitive than even the men since their times have dropped more in the past 32 years.
He, he, he, Cynthia.
I hope from reading 'Not feeling that great', that you are getting better.
Allow me to polish the post:
Popov is at a disadvantage in relays because Russia doesn't have the depth that the US does.
It's true that Blondi did the 200 meter freestyle and the 100 fly in his earlier international career.
On that note he is better than Popov.
But relays depend upon 4 swimmers not 1 swimmer.
Also, the new rules make it difficult for swimmers to win multiple events-there are three rounds instead of 2 like in Spitz's day.
And the real competition on the international scene is the ladies.
In Spitz's day he won the 100 meter fly swim in 54.27.
The ladies winner from Japan (i.e.: Mayumi Aoki) only posted a 1:03.34.
In the last Olympics Lars Frolander won the 100 fly in 52.00, while Inky won the ladies event in 56.61.
So, the ladies have become a lot more competitive than even the men since their times have dropped more in the past 31 years.
