Backstroke Turn

What is this "old backstroke turn"? Is it the turn where you grab the wall while on your back and then you put your feet on the wall and push off? If that's it, then I never learned it, I've only seen people do it. But the freestyle turn for the backstroke is the best!! I think it is alot faster than the old turn. Anyhow, this is how it goes... alrighty, when you're on your back, you flip onto your stomach...now you're only allowed one pull. When I do this, I pull with only one arm while kicking like crazy. But I just read the rules and they said that you're allowed to do a double arm pull(?). What I think that means is that instead of using one arm to do that one pull, you can use both arms to do that one. But I don't know what would happen if your flip onto your stomach and you know that you are too far away from the wall to execute your arm pull and turn...the rules don't really say anything about it. "Once the body has left the position on the back, any kick or arm pull must be part of the continuous turning action." I think this part of the rule is what I learned. If you're too far from the wall, the only thing you're allowed to do is kick. Then when you feel that you're close enough, then you do your arm pull and then flip...I think that is what is meant by the "continuous turning action" part. So you really have to count your strokes after the flags. And after the flip, you must be on your back. If you're on your side or stomach, it's an automatic DQ. So in simple terms, 1)flip onto stomach, 2)kick if too far away, but you should be kicking into the turn anyways, so keep those legs moving, 3) arm pull, 4) flip onto back, 4) SWIM!! Hope this clears stuff up...hope you can read what I wrote...I'm confusing. IF ANYONE WANTS TO CLARIFY, PLEASE DO. But this is what I've been doing my whole swimming career and I've never been DQed once. David;)

My coach also threw in a key reminder when I was learning this...Think about staying somewhat on your side while you kick and pull into the wall. It'll keep you out of a D.Q. Check out the video clip of Welsh (under Backstroke) at the following link. Now you know why NCAA swimmers are going 46 and 47 for the hundred yard races. It's all in the faster turn. (http://www.swim.ee/videos/)

Almost Dave. But if you kick into the wall, after your one pull is completed (with either one or both arms) you will (rather, can) be disqualified. The interpretation of the 'continuous turning motion' is that the pull and the flip need to be continuous with each other. If you do turn over too far from the wall, what you need to do is kick hard and pull your arm(s) slo o o o o ly. Great turn, lousy rule. Also, you only need to be on your back (rather, toward your back, so you can be almost on your side) when your feet leave the wall and later. Us oldtimers remember the 'old turn.' The rule was that you needed to be on your back the entire time between the walls. So when you touched the wall you needed be be toward your back, then you would flip (not grabbing the wall, if you were any good) and push off toward your back. The turn could be rather cramped, particularly if you mistimed the wall. The current turn is much more forgiving. There were variations, such as crossing your arm over the front of your body to touch the wall and starting to roll your body before you actually touched. I never got the hang of that turn. I remember several times just swimming into the wall. That was before I started front-quadrant backstroke, and my head got sore! *really* old timers (like my father) remember having to do a similar turn in freestyle. That is, you needed to touch the wall with your hand, then (or during the?) flip. Someone reading this can answer the last question.

Why are you on your side for the turn? I don't think you can do that ? Maybe before the turn. But after you exicute the turn you can't turn past vertical or you will get DQ. I am prety sure. Plus I think it would be faster going into the wall straight on because turning over onto your belly and your arm motion should be togeter for one continuous motion. A good way to start to learn the backstroke turn if you don't know how is count your strokes from the flags to the wall. Once you get to a prety consistent number, subtract 1 from it. Where you subtract the one is where you are going to turn onto your belly. When you roll over one hand should be out front. Once you rolled over this arm must be moving it doesn't matter how fast. If you are far away from the wall then you want to move it really slow. You must be starting your turn before your arm stops moving. It took me a lot of DQ's to figuar out this rule, No one ever told how to make my turns continuous. Once you do a flip turn make surn you turn right to your back or you will get DQ. I hope this helps. Good Luck!!! Ashlynn

Thank you Phil for the reply. I have seen many of the elite swimmers come off the walls flat on their back, go deep, and dolphin like there's no tomorrow, or at least for the maximum distance allowed. But for now I don't forsee growing any gills in the near future. So I'll take advantage of any streamline positioning I can get even if it means one or two wimpy dolphin kicks on my side. (I still get about ten yards on a turn). My coach's interpretation is that so long as one's shoulder doesn't rotate past the side lying position everything is jiggy as the kids would say.

Swimgirl, As I understand the rule, after you push off the wall it is permissible to streamline on your side so long as you don't tilt pass 90 degrees. I usually do a quick dolphin kick on my side and turn onto my back before breaking the surface. All the while being very careful not to pass the ninety degree mark. The reason for this is that one can normally cut the water faster while on their side than flat on their back, (or belly if it's freestyle). Back in the days when we did the "old school" turn, we stayed flat on our back for the entire swim. I guess as a habit from doing freestyle turns on my side (facing the wall) during push-off, it carried over into my 21st century backstroke turn. If anyone knows different about the rule, please let me know. I've only competed twice since getting back into the pool last year and would hate to be DQ'd. Phil? Thanks, Val.

You understand correctly, Val. Misty Hymen and others are mostly on their side when they butterfly kick off of the wall in butterfly races. The logic (as explained by Hymen) is that when they kick sideways the turbulence spreads that way, and does not bounce off of the bottom of the pool and the surface of the water, and thus impede their swims. The same logic would apply to buttefly kicks off of the wall in backstroke. Again, you can be any orientation you want when your feet are on the wall, but when your feet leave the wall your body (usually defined as the plane through the shoulders) should be toward the back. Only a little bit off of sideways would be OK. Also, the way stroke and turn judges are taught - with the benefit of the doubt being given to the swimmer - I doubt anyone would be disqualified if they were in fact 'sideways.' I am a stroke and turn judge for USS Swimming and I speak from that experience. There are others who read this forum that have more experience than I have, but I am confident about my interpretation of this issue.

I would like to see some actual studies on side kicking vs. back kicking. If anything, the shock waves reverberating back from the bottom of the pool might give you a boost forward. And if you are 2+ feet deep I don't think that the surface turbulance behind you will make much difference. Maybe this all relates to the fact that fish "kick" sideways. But how about the mammals? Whales, dolphins, manatees, humans, etc. They are all vertical kickers. When swimming backstroke you should want to keep your blow-hole in the proper position. Looking at the turn video at (http://www.swim.ee/videos/) I don't see much side kicking action. It is much simpler/quicker to tumble straight from stomach to back and minimize the extra twist.

Phil M., I would have to agree with you that the majority of backstrokers push off the wall face up. I happen to twist slightly during the flip so that I come off the wall in more of a side lying position. As a freestyle sprinter I've always found that the faster I can get to my face down position the sooner I can start swimming. Some folks push off the wall on their back and have to 'corkscrew' over to get their belly facing the pool bottom again. (I think this could cost 4 to 5 tenths per turn which adds up to just over a second on a hundred yard swim.) In any case, it seems that I've incorporated some of my freestyle turn technique into the backstroke flip. I imagine with superior conditioning anyone can stay submerged and dolphin away, while most of the land animals like myself are scrambling to get air as soon as possible. Watch this guy's turn, and you'll see what I mean about the side lying dolphin position for freestyle racing. I'm not sure who he is, but it's evident that he's smooth , efficent, and probably pretty fast. It takes a couple of minutes to downlaod. (www.swim.ee/.../Pjotr01-01.mpg) And Dave, I guess Will Smith's kids are the few remaining that use the expression jiggy. I'll have my kids bring me up to speed with the latest.

jiggy, vanhallan? ...I don't think we youngins say that. Anyhow, swimming on your side does make sense cause don't you move through water better on your side?...I'll try it next time. :) David