This is a bit of a rant, and I'm reluctant to post it here because I always get politely chastised when I suggest ideas like this. But there was another example of it in today's h.s. swim meet results in the newspaper. I was a track and CC runner in h.s. I began swimming for fitness decades ago after h.s., but have never been on an organized, competitive team. So, I never really gained an understanding of how meets are conducted, nor coaching philosophy. That changed when my now adult daughter joined the h.s. swim team. To better support her, I studied up and figured much of it out. Even to the point where the coach coerced into being a "meet day on-deck assistant" during daughter's h.s. years. So, to this day, I still peruse the sports pages for local h.s. swim meet results. But, one thing that I just can't understand is why coaches (seemingly) don't set their race assignments for maximum points. Specifically, I frequently see results wherein the winner of the 500 free will swim a faster pace than the winning times in the 100 free and 200 free (and now and then even the 50 free). I see this on almost a weekly basis. Instead of being spent winning the 500 free, and getting points in just one event, that one swimmer (presumably) could have gotten twice the points and won both the 100 and 200...and his/her team won the meet instead of losing by two points. I get it that there are team dynamics I may not be aware of; you can only compete in x# events per meet; that the coach may be building for the future; wanted swimmers to get experience in other events; a swimmer had a bad day; etc etc. And, maybe it's stubbornness on my part as a runner at my core, thinking that swim training, competing, and coaching ought to be done the way it is on the track. I know...it's a completely different sport. To many of you I know that sounds crazy. I guess I just can't grasp the swim team coaching and competing mentality. Maybe there are paradigms. I just wish I could witness a swim coach take that approach and see what the outcome would be.
Dan
I'm a Florida high school swimming official and work a couple of dual meets every week during the high school season.
In high school (and college for that matter), the emphasis these days seems more on preparing for end of the year conference and state championship meets, over regular season dual meet results. There's a lot of emphasis on posting seed times, particularly in relays.
Here in FL, high swimmers are limited to two individual events and two relays per meet. At the same time, they have to participate in a minimum number of regular season meets to qualify for the state district meets. The order of events is fixed also, so it's not like a coach can be overly creative with their line ups.
The year-round club swimmers normally dominate the results on their high school teams, but it's nice to see coaches slot the part-time "in-season" swimmers into meets and give them a chance to compete also.
Dan,
Unfortunately, some parts of the country treat HS swimming as an intramural activity (and New England has more than their share of this). Wins/losses don't matter because it is all about club swimming and letting the club swimmers do whatever they want. This is the reason I WON'T coach or officiate HS teams/meets in Oregon.
There are parts of the country that function the way you think (NY, Ohio, Illinois, Minnesota, Wisconsin - to name a few). The goal is to win meets and the team members swam the events that made that possible - even if they did not want to. My HS teams in Minnesota were undefeated for 4 years which was a huge motivation for everyone to play a part. On close meets, I would spend hours finding a way to gain an extra point or have a Plan B when something did not go right. When I was asking a swimmer to step up, they understood why. We had divers swimming relays if it meant a point and a swimmer, with some diving skill, even dive once to gain a point or two. I got out-coached early in my coaching career (and we lost a meet we should have won). Never happen again.
The issue you raise is exactly why hs school swimming is important for kids. They learn (we hope) that the team is bigger than them, that life is bigger than them, and they should get used to doing what is needed instead of what they want.
Of course, in your situation, it could be the coaches are clueless - which is a shame. Other parts of the country are like you wish Rhode Island would be. If it is not obvious, I agree with you!
Paul
Paul,
"Coaches are clueless" (here in RI) could be part of it. Maybe it's not always their fault. I would frequently witness coach-swimmer discussions/arguments wherein the coach would be trying to get the swimmer to swim a certain event that the swimmer did not want to swim...in order to affect the outcome of the meet (i.e. win it). Too many times I'd see the swimmer win that argument and the team would lose the meet simply because the kid didn't want to swim the event the coach was asking. That's selfishness on the kid's part. But the coach ought not put up with that. In the case I described above where I became the on deck assistant...it was simply to keep the coach advised as to what the running score was. Which is segue to why I learned how to score the meet...
Here in Rhode Island, I consider h.s. swimming to be the absolute worst spectator sport. It is tough on the spectator's senses. The natatorium is hot (for those fully dressed in winter attire), many of those natatorium reek of over-chlorination, and it's loud. On top of all that, never once at a h.s meet here in RI was there ever a scoreboard operating to keep swimmers, coaches, and spectators (mostly parents like me) informed as to the running score. Heck, there usually wasn't even a race clock. We would just be cheering for the kids from our school to win their heat/race. So, I began keeping a running score in the stands, and kept the other parents informed. They appreciated it. And sometimes my score would be wrong. When a kid would get DQ'd...the official scorers really wouldn't inform anyone...unless they were asked. That's where I came in. The coach found out I knew how to score. So she asked me to be on deck with her during meets just to keep her constantly informed on the score. You'd think a good coach should keep track of that. But I can attest that it is chaotic on the pool deck with all the high schoolers running around, and everything that's going on. It would help her in changing race assignments around when the score necessitated it. And still being down there on deck my score would be wrong because the officials would DQ without telling anyone. So after each race I'd have to go ask who, if anyone, was DQ'd. Back when I was on my h.s. track team...there was always a clock, always a scoreboard (or the score constantly announced).
Dan
And then who would swim the distance events?
In my example, the swimmer that won the 500 would now be swimming the 100 and 200 instead...displacing a swimmer in each of those races. Put one of them in the 500.
Dan
Dan,
A couple of comments:
My coaches (and then me as a head coach) always posted a meet line-up the day before the meet. Kids knew in advance what they were swimming and why. If a swimmer was not going to impact the results, I would not put them in an event they hated - that is just mean. During the meet, the copy of the line-up had spots where I could keep score and I would confirm after every 3-4 events.
As for the pool environment, the odor you are experiencing is most likely not from over-chlorination. You are likely smelling "chloramines" which are the by-product of not enough chlorine to react/bind with the organic material in the pool (sweat, urine, etc..) coupled with an HVAC system not designed to expel the air (or was properly designed, but the damper was closed so the school did not have to heat the cold air coming in).
Dan,
As for the pool environment, the odor you are experiencing is most likely not from over-chlorination. You are likely smelling "chloramines" which are the by-product of not enough chlorine to react/bind with the organic material in the pool (sweat, urine, etc..) coupled with an HVAC system not designed to expel the air (or was properly designed, but the damper was closed so the school did not have to heat the cold air coming in).
That may very well be the cause. But my point is that the smell is present and it's tough to sit there and breathe through the whole meet.
Dan
Not sure what you are looking for, you asked the exact same question a year ago and got several answers. But here are a few more thoughts.
- HS swimming is not the pinnacle of the sport, USA Swimming is. My girls don't even do it. If they did, one of them would be the fastest on the team in every event but the 100Fly (ironically, her best event - but there's a Sr. who is a ringer in that one). Perhaps the coach in question has an agreement wiht said swimmer to let him/her swim certain events in order to participate.
- Dual meets aren't really all that important compared to State or whatever other meets. Said coach may have been trying to get as many kids to qualify for the State meet as possible.
- HS swimming is a club sport in a lot of places, certainly here. There may be rules in place that every swimmer has to be allowed to swim a certain amount, and that is how the coach dealt with it.
- Coach may be dealing with whiny parents. Again, club sport, and sometimes parents make the hiring decisions (either indirectly or directly).
- Coach may be more concerned about making things fair and fun - again, club sport and not the pinnacle - for as many people as he could and set up the events for that reason. Maybe coach is a parent volunteer and doesn't know as much.
- Event order. Those meets often go by pretty quickly. Maybe there wasn't enough time for the swimmer to rest between teh 100 and 200.
There could be a great many reasons. But since you seem to have such a hangup on this, and you have a connection wiht at least one local coach, why don't you ask him?
I suppose it depends on if the aim of the coaches, at the high school level and whatever tier/league they operate in, is to win meets or develop swimmers. A coach might well put a swimmer in an event that he or she wouldn't ordinarily do, for the purpose of giving him/her the experience.
(As a caveat, I never swam in high school, and was never particularly aware of my times in age group - I just wanted to swim. We were sometimes assigned to events we didn't like - I hated breaststroke - for the experience or because no one else was available or just to try it.)
67 -- In fact, I don't know any of the swim coaches in the vicinity, nor even a h.s. swimmer. The person who was coaching when my daughter was in h.s. is long gone. Yes, I've brought up h.s. swimming previously...as I stated in my OP...but I think that was more about the training aspect and not the outcome of meets and how they're conducted. Isn't this the General Swimming-Related Discussion forum? I don't have a hang up on the sport, I'm just trying to understand the ins and outs of how the sport is conducted at that level, and am seeking info from experts like yourself. Thanks.
Dan
