Over the last weekend I competed in 50m and 100m LCM butterfly.
I can swim the events, but I am just not able to keep my stroke together and remain at a reasonable speed (I would say fast, but even when sprinting it takes me about 36 secs per 50m SCM). I then deteriorate into 'survival' fly, where my hips drop and the priority is breathing on each stroke.
On the 50m, I started to struggle over the last 10m, which lost me a few seconds. On the 100m, I went out a bit slower, but by the time I got to the second 50m I was really struggling. This meant it took me around 55 secs to do the second 50m.
I've done a lot of fly in training recently, so I didn't expect it to be so tough.
In contrast, I did the 100m freestyle, and kept my intensity near maximum throughout, so I'm not sure why fly would be so different?
I do all of my training in a 25m pool, so do I really need to get to a 50m pool to get used to longcourse?
Is part of the problem oxygen debt? I seem to have trouble breathing properly on fly, as I am normally rushing to get my head back down after a very short breath.
I saw in the archives a topic about fly endurance. It suggested working on sets of 25m, then 50m, then 75m until doing 6x75m at a good pace. Another suggestion is doing 8x25m fly and decreasing the rest with each workout. My coach suggested doing 20x25m of 6 stroke fly followed by easy freestyle into the wall. That doesn't seem to be working for me, because it seems to be teaching me to swim 6 strokes then relax.
Would you recommend one of the above training methods or another one?
Is land training essential for conditioning to the level required, as most of my training is pool based right now?
Sorry for the long topic, with lots of questions. Hopefully, I will find some help here or just pointed towards some articles/training methods that work.
I've started off quite conservatively. I'm doing 10x50m on 1:45, followed by 10x25m on 45.
The 10x50m sounds easy, but I've had a cold, so it's affecting my recovery between each repeat. I managed to keep the pace around 45 secs (40 at first). I will aim to reduce the rest when I feel better, and can maintain my stroke (it became difficult to hold my arm entry correctly during the final few 50s).
The 10x25m were good, and I will be reducing the rest by 5 secs next time.
I do a lot of other swimming besides the fly training. That was just an example of the fly sets that I am doing, but there's a lot of other training going on too, usually on Free, Back or IM, and with much less rest.
I don't do any aerobic training outside the pool. Do I need to join a gym and do rowing, cycling etc., or do something different from that? I do a bit of land training at home, but that's generally static exercises and trying to improve core stability, e.g. planks, push ups, bodyweight squats.
No, pool training should be enough. I just wanted to make sure you were doing aerobic training in the pool because I think that's critical if you want to improve your 100 fly. My personal opinion is at least a couple days a week (and ideally more) you should be doing a set where you are swimming with only short rest intervals for at least 20 minutes.
No, pool training should be enough. I just wanted to make sure you were doing aerobic training in the pool because I think that's critical if you want to improve your 100 fly. My personal opinion is at least a couple days a week (and ideally more) you should be doing a set where you are swimming with only short rest intervals for at least 20 minutes.
I swim 4-5 times a week if work allows. Some of those will be 1 hour club sessions, where I have little control over what I do, but I do like getting more backstroke practice by doing it instead of freestyle on some sets, which also increases difficulty. The other sessions will be in public lane swimming, but it's normally quiet enough to get a good varied longer session done. I save the fly for if there's lots of room, as switching to single arm to pass people ruins my momentum and stroke.
My fitness is still improving after stopping swimming for about 14 years. I've been back for about 2 years now, but I am still making regular progress. My bodyweight has improved greatly, as when not swimming I was a powerlifter and was over 320#. I'm now back down to about 225# at 6'3". I still have weight to lose, and I am sure that will help my fly, but I want to get the training right too.
In terms of talent, I am not good at all, but I want to get to a level where I can swim a 200m fly without switching to survival fly, i.e. maintaining a long and strong stroke, even if it's not as quick as the good swimmers.
What are you doing for your aerobic conditioning?
I do a lot of other swimming besides the fly training. That was just an example of the fly sets that I am doing, but there's a lot of other training going on too, usually on Free, Back or IM, and with much less rest.
I don't do any aerobic training outside the pool. Do I need to join a gym and do rowing, cycling etc., or do something different from that? I do a bit of land training at home, but that's generally static exercises and trying to improve core stability, e.g. planks, push ups, bodyweight squats.
In terms of talent, I am not good at all, but I want to get to a level where I can swim a 200m fly without switching to survival fly, i.e. maintaining a long and strong stroke, even if it's not as quick as the good swimmers.
It sounds to me like you are doing the things you need to do to improve. Good luck!
Thanks for the advice.
It seems my plan of doing repeats off 1 min/each 25m (so, 50m is done off 2 mins etc.) may be a bit too easy. But I'm going to make it a long term goal to keep training towards the 200m fly, so I can adjust the rest/distance as I improve. Whatever I do, I will aim to hold about 20 secs/25m swim time, as that's roughly what I can do when holding a good stroke without going all out.
I may add in longcourse training too, or train towards a longer distance than 200scm, like a 250m or 300m.
I was about where you are a year or so ago, swimming a lot of 25's on a minute. I tried to do a set of at least 8x25 every day, even if I had to squeeze it in after our coached workout (my coach used to joke about how I was swimming fly for my warm down). I've gradually worked it down to 25's on 0:40.
I've also worn my Zoomers a lot to let me do some longer sets before my stroke starts to break down.
I have the advantage of swimming long course 3 days/week for a good part of the year. I like it because it really forces you to find a sustainable rhythm, whereas in SCY, a strong turn and good underwaters can help to offset stroke weaknesses.
I'll also stretch out my glide a bit more when swimming distance butterfly. One drill I was taught was to add another kick after your arm entry to help establish a good body position before you start your arm pull.
You also have to be careful not to "dive" too much on your entry, which increases drag significantly. I was guilty of that, not realizing how much I was doing it until I saw an underwater video of my stroke.
Just my $0.02
Good luck with your training.
When I am training to race a 200 fly, I tend to start with something like 6 or 8 x 50 where I'm aiming to hit my target race pace on each 50. When I first start doing this set, I'll set the interval at 20 seconds above my target race pace. If I get to the point where that is really comfortable, I'll drop the interval to 15 seconds above target race pace. As I get closer to race day, I'd probably do 4 to 6 x 50 and set the interval at 10 seconds above target race pace
Hi, Patrick! :wave: How many times per week would you recommend I do this set? I typically swim 6 x wk (when I'm not traveling), and I max out my workouts at 2,500 yards. My core events are breaststroke; however, I also compete in 400 IM, 200 fly, and I will add distance free on a multi-day meet. How would you break down the percentage of yardage I swim each stroke in each workout?
Thanks!
:D
