Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Parents
Former Member
I see Paul how this approach is tempting:
Originally posted by Paul Smith
...
Ion, the real compariosn here should be you and Matt. Your both in the same age group and a year ago about the same speed. Matt has focused on TI and worked extremally hard on correcting his stroke mechanics and look at his results at LC nationals.
On the other hand, you continue to train like an animal and are not seeing the improvement.
...
Adding to this analysis, is that I hold the program I am training with, responsible about bringing me up for a meet.
I trust my preparation in it -conditioning and technique (I paid for extra classes in 2002 on technique while in the program)-, then I try my best in the meet, and afterwards I judge the program.
Last year, it was an alarm to me to do 200 free Long Course in 2:34 with taper and from a dive, after having workouts -without taper and diving- of 3 x 200 leaving every 4:00, swimming one in 2:33, and two 200s in 2:34:
the program didn't bring me up on race day.
What I want, is the program to bring me up around my second best:
2:27.67 swam in the 50 meter pool of Federal Way, Wa., July 30, 1994 whith self coaching.
After this is restored, then I welcome small, careful changes to my best, and no dismantling.
This year it was far worse: 2:39.
The program didn't bring me up again.
Four weeks ago I switched to another program.
I don't know how good this move will be, either.
Originally posted by Paul Smith
...
You want some examples from USMS? Ask Rich Abrahams how he trains sometime, probably less yardage and more focus on technique and speed work than anyone I've ever met. His results are also some of the most impressive, the guy could pass for a 20 year Navy Seal! How about John Smith (who kicked my butt in the 50/100 this spring)? No more than 2500 yds per workout 3-4 days a week, again with a focus on training with rtechnique and speed.
...
I am drawn to training with enlightened competitors and programs, who prepare for the agenda of racing.
This is opposed to training, like eating self servings from a cafeteria:
forever fit, with no agenda for tapering, peaking and recovery.
Regarding the examples of fast USMS competitors, consider also that fast twitch fibers developed in age group programs, can be partially recovered again later in life with light mileage and smart training.
A sub 2:00 in 200 meter free Long Course, developed by a mid-20 starter in swimming, historically doesn't exist.
My 2:27 is good, and I look for the program that can restore it in me like it was, then improve it with small changes.
I see Paul how this approach is tempting:
Originally posted by Paul Smith
...
Ion, the real compariosn here should be you and Matt. Your both in the same age group and a year ago about the same speed. Matt has focused on TI and worked extremally hard on correcting his stroke mechanics and look at his results at LC nationals.
On the other hand, you continue to train like an animal and are not seeing the improvement.
...
Adding to this analysis, is that I hold the program I am training with, responsible about bringing me up for a meet.
I trust my preparation in it -conditioning and technique (I paid for extra classes in 2002 on technique while in the program)-, then I try my best in the meet, and afterwards I judge the program.
Last year, it was an alarm to me to do 200 free Long Course in 2:34 with taper and from a dive, after having workouts -without taper and diving- of 3 x 200 leaving every 4:00, swimming one in 2:33, and two 200s in 2:34:
the program didn't bring me up on race day.
What I want, is the program to bring me up around my second best:
2:27.67 swam in the 50 meter pool of Federal Way, Wa., July 30, 1994 whith self coaching.
After this is restored, then I welcome small, careful changes to my best, and no dismantling.
This year it was far worse: 2:39.
The program didn't bring me up again.
Four weeks ago I switched to another program.
I don't know how good this move will be, either.
Originally posted by Paul Smith
...
You want some examples from USMS? Ask Rich Abrahams how he trains sometime, probably less yardage and more focus on technique and speed work than anyone I've ever met. His results are also some of the most impressive, the guy could pass for a 20 year Navy Seal! How about John Smith (who kicked my butt in the 50/100 this spring)? No more than 2500 yds per workout 3-4 days a week, again with a focus on training with rtechnique and speed.
...
I am drawn to training with enlightened competitors and programs, who prepare for the agenda of racing.
This is opposed to training, like eating self servings from a cafeteria:
forever fit, with no agenda for tapering, peaking and recovery.
Regarding the examples of fast USMS competitors, consider also that fast twitch fibers developed in age group programs, can be partially recovered again later in life with light mileage and smart training.
A sub 2:00 in 200 meter free Long Course, developed by a mid-20 starter in swimming, historically doesn't exist.
My 2:27 is good, and I look for the program that can restore it in me like it was, then improve it with small changes.
