Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Phil, well summarized! You just nailed the bottom line in this whole "debate": make valid comparisons. Ion often uses Popov as his measuring stick and the quote of his about making minor adjustments to his stroke vs a complete dismantling.
The point here is that Popov, Ervin, Hall, etc are the top 1% and all have a natural gift that can't be taught. The basic feel and stroke mechanics they have are what TI is attempting to bring to the masses and which all of us can learn from.
Ion, the real compariosn here should be you and Matt. Your both in the same age group and a year ago about the same speed. Matt has focused on TI and worked extremally hard on correcting his stroke mechanics and look at his results at LC nationals.
On the other hand, you continue to train like an animal and are not seeing the improvement. For those of us in the 40+ age group we have to train smarter, otherwise you will see continuous setbacks from injuries (especially with bad technique).
You want some examples from USMS? Ask Rich Abrahams how he trains sometime, probably less yardage and more focus on technique and speed work than anyone I've ever met. His results are also some of the most impressive, the guy could pass for a 20 year Navy Seal! How about John Smith (who kicked my butt in the 50/100 this spring)? No more than 2500 yds per workout 3-4 days a week, again with a focus on training with rtechnique and speed.
With all the passion you have I to would encourage you to make the investment in a TI seminar. Or better yet go train with Michael Collins (in Irvine) sometime, contrary to my posts about the lack of coaching out there Michael is outstanding and someone I try to train with anytime I'm in SoCal.
Phil, well summarized! You just nailed the bottom line in this whole "debate": make valid comparisons. Ion often uses Popov as his measuring stick and the quote of his about making minor adjustments to his stroke vs a complete dismantling.
The point here is that Popov, Ervin, Hall, etc are the top 1% and all have a natural gift that can't be taught. The basic feel and stroke mechanics they have are what TI is attempting to bring to the masses and which all of us can learn from.
Ion, the real compariosn here should be you and Matt. Your both in the same age group and a year ago about the same speed. Matt has focused on TI and worked extremally hard on correcting his stroke mechanics and look at his results at LC nationals.
On the other hand, you continue to train like an animal and are not seeing the improvement. For those of us in the 40+ age group we have to train smarter, otherwise you will see continuous setbacks from injuries (especially with bad technique).
You want some examples from USMS? Ask Rich Abrahams how he trains sometime, probably less yardage and more focus on technique and speed work than anyone I've ever met. His results are also some of the most impressive, the guy could pass for a 20 year Navy Seal! How about John Smith (who kicked my butt in the 50/100 this spring)? No more than 2500 yds per workout 3-4 days a week, again with a focus on training with rtechnique and speed.
With all the passion you have I to would encourage you to make the investment in a TI seminar. Or better yet go train with Michael Collins (in Irvine) sometime, contrary to my posts about the lack of coaching out there Michael is outstanding and someone I try to train with anytime I'm in SoCal.
