Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Parents
Former Member
Originally posted by breastroker
...
But please tell me what you were trying to prove? And how does your "facts" relate to anyone swimming faster?
...
What these statistics prove is that in the instance of 2000 Olympics, 50 free finals, Ervin, after a poor start, did swim faster than Hall by using a higher rate and shorter length.
Contrary to this instance and other instances, TI teaches the lenghtening of the stroke, and slowing of the rate.
Practicing drills like TI, makes racing like TI.
I say, length and rate are depending on individuals, there is not an absolute like TI does claim.
TI makes other absolute claims that are disproven by examples.
Originally posted by breastroker
...
If you drop your time by 20 seconds in the 800 I will be happy to call you Fast Ion.
...
This year I swam in 11:45.
Last year I swam in 11:20.
That's 25 seconds less.
And no TI.
I swear.
25 seconds is more than 20 seconds.
Does this upgrade me to 'Very Fast Ion'?
What about 10:33 in 1991, with no TI, training by myself, albeit in short course meters?
Or in 1995, again no TI, in a 50 meter pool workout in Canada with somebody who last year remembered this:
4 x 400 meters leaving every 5:30?
Is that 'Ultra Fast Ion?'
I am chasing these, now.
They are gone.
I will be away and not able to follow up on this for a few days.
Stay out of trouble...
Originally posted by breastroker
...
But please tell me what you were trying to prove? And how does your "facts" relate to anyone swimming faster?
...
What these statistics prove is that in the instance of 2000 Olympics, 50 free finals, Ervin, after a poor start, did swim faster than Hall by using a higher rate and shorter length.
Contrary to this instance and other instances, TI teaches the lenghtening of the stroke, and slowing of the rate.
Practicing drills like TI, makes racing like TI.
I say, length and rate are depending on individuals, there is not an absolute like TI does claim.
TI makes other absolute claims that are disproven by examples.
Originally posted by breastroker
...
If you drop your time by 20 seconds in the 800 I will be happy to call you Fast Ion.
...
This year I swam in 11:45.
Last year I swam in 11:20.
That's 25 seconds less.
And no TI.
I swear.
25 seconds is more than 20 seconds.
Does this upgrade me to 'Very Fast Ion'?
What about 10:33 in 1991, with no TI, training by myself, albeit in short course meters?
Or in 1995, again no TI, in a 50 meter pool workout in Canada with somebody who last year remembered this:
4 x 400 meters leaving every 5:30?
Is that 'Ultra Fast Ion?'
I am chasing these, now.
They are gone.
I will be away and not able to follow up on this for a few days.
Stay out of trouble...
