Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Parents
Former Member
Ion,
When I had posted that I was confused from your earlier post about Ervin and Hall distance per cycle it was because you had both Ervin and Hall at 2.18 meters per cycle at the beginning of your posting and 2.18 for Hall and 2.17 for Ervin towards the end - I have noticed that after my comment you went back and edited that post to read that Ervin was at 2.17 (instead of 2.18)at the beginning, so you're welcome.
Once again in regards to Joachums quote of drills, is taken out of context - Wouldn't doing race simulation and modifying your race be a drill ? I think that when working with these top swimmers the standard drills to find balance, body position etc. are not needed because they have all ready acquired these skills/traits by them (natural talent or hard work). I remember reading about when Torres started thinking about swimming again there was a total restructuring of her stroke - including the use of drills (I believe the quote was 'we don't swim like that anymore').
Final thought I think I have come to the root of your displeasure of TI "things that TI condones are no fun" (like swimming faster with less effort, swimming injury free or at least with less chance of injury). I think you are looking for a sure thing, the only two I can give you are death and taxes - everything else in life is a gamble, looking at your past what have you got to lose by trying to incorporate some of the TI philosophy.
Ion,
When I had posted that I was confused from your earlier post about Ervin and Hall distance per cycle it was because you had both Ervin and Hall at 2.18 meters per cycle at the beginning of your posting and 2.18 for Hall and 2.17 for Ervin towards the end - I have noticed that after my comment you went back and edited that post to read that Ervin was at 2.17 (instead of 2.18)at the beginning, so you're welcome.
Once again in regards to Joachums quote of drills, is taken out of context - Wouldn't doing race simulation and modifying your race be a drill ? I think that when working with these top swimmers the standard drills to find balance, body position etc. are not needed because they have all ready acquired these skills/traits by them (natural talent or hard work). I remember reading about when Torres started thinking about swimming again there was a total restructuring of her stroke - including the use of drills (I believe the quote was 'we don't swim like that anymore').
Final thought I think I have come to the root of your displeasure of TI "things that TI condones are no fun" (like swimming faster with less effort, swimming injury free or at least with less chance of injury). I think you are looking for a sure thing, the only two I can give you are death and taxes - everything else in life is a gamble, looking at your past what have you got to lose by trying to incorporate some of the TI philosophy.
