Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Parents
Former Member
Some interesting posts here. Its too bad this software doesn't allow subthreads, because there are several: What is wrong/right about TI, What is that pause stuff, anyway?, Why I hate Ion, Why you should practice fast sets, etc.
About that pause thing, breastroker may see it in the swimmers he mentions, others don't. The reason is that 'pause' is a little vague. Some interpret it as laying the hand in front and letting it sit for a while. That does *not* happen in the best swimmers. Others interpret it as a period when the arm is in in the water and no great force is applied. That does happen. These swimmers are *actively* reaching forward, lifting the elbow, positioning the hand, in preparation for the pull. No great force is applied, but neither is there a literal pause, and neither is it ballistic - it is controlled at all times (ballistic - set in motion in the beginning, with no control over subsequent motion).
I think if you are teaching swimming to beginners, these phrases, glide, pause, anchor, rotate from the hip, etc. are useful visualizations, but they are not happening physically. Basically, you move forward by pushing water backward, you can do it better by pushing it faster, pushing more water, or pushing it in a better direction. You can also reduce drag by a better body position. That's it. All swimming instruction, including TI, try to improve these four aspects of swimming. Some emphasize some points more than others, but they are all important.
But I can see why Ion gets irritated with all the metaphors and language. No way do you go faster by pausing. Instead, you position your body to reduce drag (while getting ready for the next pull), this reduces your deceleration caused by drag and allows other things (the orther arm, kicking) to move you forward more effectively.
That Ervin/Hall article was pretty interesting. Yes, Ervin had a bad start, and yes, he swam the rest of it faster than anyone else, with a faster turn over and a shorter distance per stroke. But what really impressed me was how *terrible* Popov's finish was.
Some interesting posts here. Its too bad this software doesn't allow subthreads, because there are several: What is wrong/right about TI, What is that pause stuff, anyway?, Why I hate Ion, Why you should practice fast sets, etc.
About that pause thing, breastroker may see it in the swimmers he mentions, others don't. The reason is that 'pause' is a little vague. Some interpret it as laying the hand in front and letting it sit for a while. That does *not* happen in the best swimmers. Others interpret it as a period when the arm is in in the water and no great force is applied. That does happen. These swimmers are *actively* reaching forward, lifting the elbow, positioning the hand, in preparation for the pull. No great force is applied, but neither is there a literal pause, and neither is it ballistic - it is controlled at all times (ballistic - set in motion in the beginning, with no control over subsequent motion).
I think if you are teaching swimming to beginners, these phrases, glide, pause, anchor, rotate from the hip, etc. are useful visualizations, but they are not happening physically. Basically, you move forward by pushing water backward, you can do it better by pushing it faster, pushing more water, or pushing it in a better direction. You can also reduce drag by a better body position. That's it. All swimming instruction, including TI, try to improve these four aspects of swimming. Some emphasize some points more than others, but they are all important.
But I can see why Ion gets irritated with all the metaphors and language. No way do you go faster by pausing. Instead, you position your body to reduce drag (while getting ready for the next pull), this reduces your deceleration caused by drag and allows other things (the orther arm, kicking) to move you forward more effectively.
That Ervin/Hall article was pretty interesting. Yes, Ervin had a bad start, and yes, he swam the rest of it faster than anyone else, with a faster turn over and a shorter distance per stroke. But what really impressed me was how *terrible* Popov's finish was.
