Approach to teaching competitive swimming?

Thank you Rain Man and Mattson and others for bringing sanity into this discussion. I would really like to get into a discussion on both starts and breaststroke underwater strokes. Much more interesting. Swimming is not about statistics and never will be. It is about applying our human needs for betterment into swimming faster. That takes time, effort, will power and intelligence from both the swimmers and the coaches. There is so much talk about SR and SL, but what most people don't realize is the pendulum is swinging back to coaches of elite swimmers asking for more stroke rate at the same stroke length!!! You might ask why? Lets go back to basics without statistics. How does one go faster in the water? 1) Get stronger 2) Become more flexible so strength can be applied longer 3) Better technique so power can be applied more efficiently 4) Become more streamlined so resistance is less. 5) Become more fit so power can be applied longer These are the basics that have improved over the last 30 years since Mark Spitz swam. How does this apply to Masters swimmers? 1) Most Masters need more strength, especially core body strength. When strength is tested on Olympic male swimmers, the winners are usually NOT the strongest in the field. Women have learned from the men and are now MUCH stronger, especially core body. 2) Flexibility is lost as we age, starting at about age 10! So we can make up some flexibility but to really gain Masters must spend hours per day. Yoga and Pilates are now very popular; swimmers see a direct correlation into faster swimming. Among Olympic swimmers, the winners are almost ALWAYS the most flexible. Mark Spitz and Matt Biondi were off the chart. Janet Evans broke the chart when it comes to chest flexibility, the ability to expand the chest and lungs greater than any other measured athlete in any sport. 3) Technique is the only area that real gains have been made, mostly with ideas like core body use, head alignment, balance, better under standing of using streamlining. 4) Streamlining is much better both off the starts and turns, but also during the actual strokes. That is why even the fastest freestylers have a PAUSE in front where they are shaping and using their body in a LONGBOAT fashion to gain speed during that small pause. There has been much bantering about the PAUSE, but there it is in Popov, Hall, and Ervin etc. So could TI be right? Strong 440 just posted an old Doc quote which is EXACTLY the same, just said differently "From the moment the hand is made to change direction from its full extension (beginning the recovery) it is in a balistic mode and remains so until until it is time to begin its "pull" 5) Become more fit? Yes, what we now learn in physiology schools is light years different than ten years ago. Yet the great swimmers of 20 years ago were probably just as fit, just as strong and just as flexible as the greats of today. Masters swimmers can only go so far, we breakdown from twice a day workouts. We can’t do 18,000 yards a day, along with weight workouts. But our knowledge of Masters aging and fitness is far greater than even 10 years ago. So the bottom line for both Masters and Olympic caliber swimmers still comes down to just one category, technique. Cecil Corwin, Doc, Quick, Kinney and others have gradually revised techniques but there really is nothing new, other than how technique is taught. Most Masters will find that using the progressive methods of TI, with a good coach, will get them the better technique they desire. But the swimmer and the coach must both understand why the drills are taught and what the end results should be in races. I have seen Olympic swimmers doing TI type drills in warm—up before important races. So I could not argue totally against them. Now I use fuzzy logic at my work, but I am not capable of debating how it works. So I can’t see why a slow swimmer who is not a great coach can spend so much time debating and spouting about technique theories, especially when attacking coaches with many years experience like Terry Laughlin. I am surprised some fancy attorney hasn't discussed with you about the real world. Remember everyone has an OPINION, but you do not have a right to take quotes out of context from people who are great coaches and who do know how to make other improve. Until you have taken a TI class from an approved instructor, you have absolutely no right to make CLAIMS against TI. Reading a book any one can do. Becoming a certified instructor in a particular technique method requires much more effort and understanding. You always have the last word. I guess where you work they allow you to be on the Internet all day long, judging by the number and length of your posts. You have killed dozens of discussion threads, and lead many people to not post here. More people have said, “Ion, I used the rolling eyes, because I thought it would be overkill to use my next choice” than you can imagine. Many times I read your posts and just get out of the discussion forum, because I really would like to attack your posts, but it really is just not worth the effort. It is frustrating to many to have a discussion similar to talking to the wall. Most of us who do attempt to set the record straight do so that new swimmers will not get bad and misinformed ideas from this forum. There is usually a good amount of information exchanged from others. Do you put things out just to be posting or to upset everyone? "I bet this can bring me replies that are poetic 'explanations', pseudo-science, therefore 'technique'."Fast Ion Should there not be truth in posting, drop the "Fast", it implies you are actually fast. Or perhaps it is "Fast on quotes and not swimming ION"? Actually most people are taught that "Argumentum Ad Hominem" is wrong. But is it a justified in this case? Perhaps

Thank you Rain Man and Mattson and others for bringing sanity into this discussion. I would really like to get into a discussion on both starts and breaststroke underwater strokes. Much more interesting. Swimming is not about statistics and never will be. It is about applying our human needs for betterment into swimming faster. That takes time, effort, will power and intelligence from both the swimmers and the coaches. There is so much talk about SR and SL, but what most people don't realize is the pendulum is swinging back to coaches of elite swimmers asking for more stroke rate at the same stroke length!!! You might ask why? Lets go back to basics without statistics. How does one go faster in the water? 1) Get stronger 2) Become more flexible so strength can be applied longer 3) Better technique so power can be applied more efficiently 4) Become more streamlined so resistance is less. 5) Become more fit so power can be applied longer These are the basics that have improved over the last 30 years since Mark Spitz swam. How does this apply to Masters swimmers? 1) Most Masters need more strength, especially core body strength. When strength is tested on Olympic male swimmers, the winners are usually NOT the strongest in the field. Women have learned from the men and are now MUCH stronger, especially core body. 2) Flexibility is lost as we age, starting at about age 10! So we can make up some flexibility but to really gain Masters must spend hours per day. Yoga and Pilates are now very popular; swimmers see a direct correlation into faster swimming. Among Olympic swimmers, the winners are almost ALWAYS the most flexible. Mark Spitz and Matt Biondi were off the chart. Janet Evans broke the chart when it comes to chest flexibility, the ability to expand the chest and lungs greater than any other measured athlete in any sport. 3) Technique is the only area that real gains have been made, mostly with ideas like core body use, head alignment, balance, better under standing of using streamlining. 4) Streamlining is much better both off the starts and turns, but also during the actual strokes. That is why even the fastest freestylers have a PAUSE in front where they are shaping and using their body in a LONGBOAT fashion to gain speed during that small pause. There has been much bantering about the PAUSE, but there it is in Popov, Hall, and Ervin etc. So could TI be right? Strong 440 just posted an old Doc quote which is EXACTLY the same, just said differently "From the moment the hand is made to change direction from its full extension (beginning the recovery) it is in a balistic mode and remains so until until it is time to begin its "pull" 5) Become more fit? Yes, what we now learn in physiology schools is light years different than ten years ago. Yet the great swimmers of 20 years ago were probably just as fit, just as strong and just as flexible as the greats of today. Masters swimmers can only go so far, we breakdown from twice a day workouts. We can’t do 18,000 yards a day, along with weight workouts. But our knowledge of Masters aging and fitness is far greater than even 10 years ago. So the bottom line for both Masters and Olympic caliber swimmers still comes down to just one category, technique. Cecil Corwin, Doc, Quick, Kinney and others have gradually revised techniques but there really is nothing new, other than how technique is taught. Most Masters will find that using the progressive methods of TI, with a good coach, will get them the better technique they desire. But the swimmer and the coach must both understand why the drills are taught and what the end results should be in races. I have seen Olympic swimmers doing TI type drills in warm—up before important races. So I could not argue totally against them. Now I use fuzzy logic at my work, but I am not capable of debating how it works. So I can’t see why a slow swimmer who is not a great coach can spend so much time debating and spouting about technique theories, especially when attacking coaches with many years experience like Terry Laughlin. I am surprised some fancy attorney hasn't discussed with you about the real world. Remember everyone has an OPINION, but you do not have a right to take quotes out of context from people who are great coaches and who do know how to make other improve. Until you have taken a TI class from an approved instructor, you have absolutely no right to make CLAIMS against TI. Reading a book any one can do. Becoming a certified instructor in a particular technique method requires much more effort and understanding. You always have the last word. I guess where you work they allow you to be on the Internet all day long, judging by the number and length of your posts. You have killed dozens of discussion threads, and lead many people to not post here. More people have said, “Ion, I used the rolling eyes, because I thought it would be overkill to use my next choice” than you can imagine. Many times I read your posts and just get out of the discussion forum, because I really would like to attack your posts, but it really is just not worth the effort. It is frustrating to many to have a discussion similar to talking to the wall. Most of us who do attempt to set the record straight do so that new swimmers will not get bad and misinformed ideas from this forum. There is usually a good amount of information exchanged from others. Do you put things out just to be posting or to upset everyone? "I bet this can bring me replies that are poetic 'explanations', pseudo-science, therefore 'technique'."Fast Ion Should there not be truth in posting, drop the "Fast", it implies you are actually fast. Or perhaps it is "Fast on quotes and not swimming ION"? Actually most people are taught that "Argumentum Ad Hominem" is wrong. But is it a justified in this case? Perhaps