Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Parents
Former Member
This portion of the quote, focuses on the discussion about 'pause' in TI, between Mark and myself:
Originally posted by mattson
...
Elsewhere, you asked about FQS. The idea is not to pause the front arm during the recovery of the other arm! (Catch-up and almost-catch-up are drills, not race strokes.) The idea is that during the most propulsive phase of the pull, the other arm should be in front to reduce the extra drag. There is still a slight overlap in the two arms pulling, and since the arm recovers faster that the other arm pulling, your arms spend more time in the "front quadrant" than the "rear quadrant". Also, despite what was misquoted elsewhere, the front arm is not (just) pausing, but "catching" the water before the pull. On pg 62 of TI:
"Jerk your hand back immediately after plunging it in and you've started an exercise in futility as it slips water from one end of the stroke to the other. Bald tires on an icy road. Instead, slip your hand in, anchor it to get ready for the pull, and keep your grip as you move your arm down and back using robust body-roll muscles, not weak shoulder muscles." In the "perfect swims" analysis of the Olympic 50 Free, this was brought up about both Hall's and Ervin's stroke.
...
I am familiar with all this terminology, and the 'Perfect Swims' serie of articles in www.usswim.org,, describing in one istance Hall and Ervin in the 50 meter finals at the 2000 Olympics.
However, the portion of the post I quote from you Mark, is just that: terminology.
It speaks about something, without addressing it, then it claims in conclusion that it did solve it.
There is no mistake in the TI book, in page 48, about what 'pause' is:
"Leave your hand extended before starting to pull back."
This "Leave your hand...", that's the 'pause', an idle state of one arm decreasing the overall rate of swimming.
Is the length increasing so that it compensates for the rate decrease?
Not in my experience: I got slower.
As for this being practice, as opposed to racing, it is how one practices that one races, including practicing the 'pause'.
I could address other points by Mark in his post, but I clarify this for now.
This portion of the quote, focuses on the discussion about 'pause' in TI, between Mark and myself:
Originally posted by mattson
...
Elsewhere, you asked about FQS. The idea is not to pause the front arm during the recovery of the other arm! (Catch-up and almost-catch-up are drills, not race strokes.) The idea is that during the most propulsive phase of the pull, the other arm should be in front to reduce the extra drag. There is still a slight overlap in the two arms pulling, and since the arm recovers faster that the other arm pulling, your arms spend more time in the "front quadrant" than the "rear quadrant". Also, despite what was misquoted elsewhere, the front arm is not (just) pausing, but "catching" the water before the pull. On pg 62 of TI:
"Jerk your hand back immediately after plunging it in and you've started an exercise in futility as it slips water from one end of the stroke to the other. Bald tires on an icy road. Instead, slip your hand in, anchor it to get ready for the pull, and keep your grip as you move your arm down and back using robust body-roll muscles, not weak shoulder muscles." In the "perfect swims" analysis of the Olympic 50 Free, this was brought up about both Hall's and Ervin's stroke.
...
I am familiar with all this terminology, and the 'Perfect Swims' serie of articles in www.usswim.org,, describing in one istance Hall and Ervin in the 50 meter finals at the 2000 Olympics.
However, the portion of the post I quote from you Mark, is just that: terminology.
It speaks about something, without addressing it, then it claims in conclusion that it did solve it.
There is no mistake in the TI book, in page 48, about what 'pause' is:
"Leave your hand extended before starting to pull back."
This "Leave your hand...", that's the 'pause', an idle state of one arm decreasing the overall rate of swimming.
Is the length increasing so that it compensates for the rate decrease?
Not in my experience: I got slower.
As for this being practice, as opposed to racing, it is how one practices that one races, including practicing the 'pause'.
I could address other points by Mark in his post, but I clarify this for now.
