Now that I've gone through the hassle of signing up as a member of this dicussion group, this gets more and more fun. Maybe I'll get fired from my job :)
Anyway... I'm sure that ALL Masters level swimmers have heard of Total Immersion (from now on referred to as TI) swimming, correct? What are everyone's opinions about TI swimming? I am most curious because as a coach of age group swimmers, I was looking for training videos for our kids. I happened upon TI and liked what I saw... at first.
Here's some background for my experience with TI... very well put together, most of what they teach has been in existence for some time anyway, and they certainly are good for teaching novice/beginner swimmers the basic technique for swimming.
However, when looking to swim fast, and I mean fast, not lap swim quality, but truly competitively, I thing TI has missed to boat completely. Yes, smooth and efficient swimming is nice, but did anyone see the NCAA's? There are 20 year old men swimming 9 strokes per length in breaststroke! We have a number of age group coaches in my area teaching their kids how to swim breaststroke at 6 or 7 strokes a length!!! What gives? Extended glide is one thing, but when you slow down your stroke to such an extent just to achieve long and fluid strokes you sacrifice speed tremendously.
Hey, if you can swim 9 strokes a length at 1 second per stroke that is WAY better than 6 strokes a length at 2 seconds per stroke. Simple math.
Anthony Ervin of Cal swam the 100 free in the follwing SPL... 12 (start)/15/16/16. I could be off but that's what I was able to get from the (ahem- PALTRY) ESPN coverage. Now TI has goal SPL's of 12/13! Hello, if the BEST sprinter in history takes 8 cycles, shouldn't that tell us something? Turnover is very important. Same with streamlining, yes streamlines are nice and quite important but A.E. pops up after 5 yards MAX out of each turn. You only serve yourself well if your streamline is faster than you can swim, most age group swimmers would be well-served to explode out of the turn and swim within 3-4 yards.
Alas, it's been a slow day finishing my work for the week. Just looking to start a nice discussion. It's been my experience that a lot of Masters level swimmers are also engaged in coaching age group swimming at some level, and therefore I feel we can get some good dialogue going on this issue.
Now I've just used TI as an example because that's what I've had my experience with, but more general is what keys do you all stress when trying to mold competitive swimmers?
Au revoir,
-Rain Man
Parents
Former Member
Originally posted by breastroker
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Ion is great at gleaming tid bits from all over the world, often quoted out of context or with no real idea of what the author was speaking about.
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You forgot to back up this claim with anything.
Originally posted by breastroker
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Lets start with "I don't see any harm using a kickboard in breaststroke. It’s never made my kick worst".
YES is does harm!
In breaststroke for every inch your head is above the water your hips will sink two inches. That greatly increases the drag and cuts into the strong point of all breaststrokers, the kick power. It does not matter what style of breaststroke you swim, you will be faster if you practice your kicks with you head in line with your spine and looking down. You MUST practice and drill as close to race technique as possible.
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This claim is from the Total Immersion book and can go back to the book, to stay in there:
there is training of calf muscles by kicking with a board, an imperfect simulation since swimming uses kicking in a slightily different position, but a cross training nonetheless;
of course kicking without a board and with your "...head in line with your spine and looking down...", simulates kicking for swimming better, but it can be practiced less;
my own kick is calf muscles developed with a board;
coaches who see me swimming long distance, praise my strong kicking all the way;
for the reason of strenghtening calf muscles, US Swimming programs are doing lots of kicking with a board;
in the 'Coaching' section of this Forum, there is a thread about positives from kicking with a board.
Originally posted by breastroker
...
Ion is great at gleaming tid bits from all over the world, often quoted out of context or with no real idea of what the author was speaking about.
...
You forgot to back up this claim with anything.
Originally posted by breastroker
...
Lets start with "I don't see any harm using a kickboard in breaststroke. It’s never made my kick worst".
YES is does harm!
In breaststroke for every inch your head is above the water your hips will sink two inches. That greatly increases the drag and cuts into the strong point of all breaststrokers, the kick power. It does not matter what style of breaststroke you swim, you will be faster if you practice your kicks with you head in line with your spine and looking down. You MUST practice and drill as close to race technique as possible.
...
This claim is from the Total Immersion book and can go back to the book, to stay in there:
there is training of calf muscles by kicking with a board, an imperfect simulation since swimming uses kicking in a slightily different position, but a cross training nonetheless;
of course kicking without a board and with your "...head in line with your spine and looking down...", simulates kicking for swimming better, but it can be practiced less;
my own kick is calf muscles developed with a board;
coaches who see me swimming long distance, praise my strong kicking all the way;
for the reason of strenghtening calf muscles, US Swimming programs are doing lots of kicking with a board;
in the 'Coaching' section of this Forum, there is a thread about positives from kicking with a board.
