Getting Older,Getting Slower

LOVE the idea, Jim! :applaud: (Although, seeing my own ratings wouldn't do much for my psyche... :blush: ) Hey, Jim, that was another excellent article you wrote in the current edition of Swimmer Magazine. Keep up the great writing!:cheerleader: Actually, one of the most useful values of the rating would be to let each person compare themselves to themselves, if that makes sense. You can take your times from, say, five years ago, figure out the ranking, then compare these to your times for the same events right now. You may have slowed down time-wise, but if you rating is reasonably consistent, or perhaps even better, that means that you are holding your own, in some sense, against the Reaper! The Reaper always wins, but a well-maintained rating suggests that you're not likely to have your ticket punched prematurely. Thanks for the kind words on my Swimmer story. Working on a new one now!

Personally, I would love to see ratings automatically added for each swim we do that winds up in the USMS database. If they decided on a single time standard--perhaps the records as of the end of each course in 2016--then used these as a baseline, you wouldn't have to update each year. New records would simply get increasingly higher 100+ scores, but an individual could look at his or her times at, say, age 44 and see how the ratings for these compare to the same events at, say, age 67. What say ye? Not too sure why you would want to have a single time standard. I like the idea of each ranking always being compared with the 'best' at any one point in time. That to my mind is a current ranking. If some faster guys come on the scene then i have got to do something about it to maintain my ranking This disagreement -- and there are good arguments for both sides -- is one of the frustrations of doing something like this. I guess personally I would like to see a single time, unchanging, standard but the trend seems to be the opposite: most "official" rating systems like FINA's update over time, even the age-group motivational time standards do so. But a changing standard is harder to understand, and you get the questions (or maybe complaints) that "my rating was X just last year, and now the same time/age gives me a rating of X - 10." Updating infrequently (say, every five years) seems a reasonable compromise...but then you get a bigger delta with every update. Sigh. Speaking of motivational standards, don't forget the unofficial masters version: forums.usms.org/showthread.php Unlike the case of adopting and using a rating system, it would not require as much IT work to just post and update such standards. Is there a preference for a rating or standards-based system? The rating system is more versatile but more complicated to implement and use.

consider, older, slower, but maybe swimming farther? I did a one and a half mile swim a year and a half ago. I was 39.

Hi Jim Not too sure why you would want to have a single time standard. I like the idea of each ranking always being compared with the 'best' at any one point in time. That to my mind is a current ranking. If some faster guys come on the scene then i have got to do something about it to maintain my ranking. i hope someone can let me know the point i have missed :) T I believe what Jim is looking for is some measure that will allow you to evaluate your swims over time. A shifting scale wouldn't allow that. Besides, we've got the event rankings to see how our times stack up against our peers at any given time.

I just happened upon another online calculator, this one by the New England LMSC. I sent an email to Ed (not sure exactly who Ed is, but hopefully he will reply) and copied Chris Stephenson on this, too. It seems to me that if New England is already calculating these ratings for their swimmers, it should be possible to adapt their computer code to the USMS tabulations in general. Anyhow, here is their calculator www.egswim.com/.../RatingTime.php And here is a link to their LMSC's all time 100 top rated swims for different events and age groups, men and women. Both Laura and Allen, I suspect, would place very high on these listings if they swam for New England-based teams. www.egswim.com/.../ratingEvent.php Personally, I would love to see ratings automatically added for each swim we do that winds up in the USMS database. If they decided on a single time standard--perhaps the records as of the end of each course in 2016--then used these as a baseline, you wouldn't have to update each year. New records would simply get increasingly higher 100+ scores, but an individual could look at his or her times at, say, age 44 and see how the ratings for these compare to the same events at, say, age 67. What say ye? Hi Jim Not too sure why you would want to have a single time standard. I like the idea of each ranking always being compared with the 'best' at any one point in time. That to my mind is a current ranking. If some faster guys come on the scene then i have got to do something about it to maintain my ranking. i hope someone can let me know the point i have missed :) T

At 67 I suddenly got old, arthritis, etc. Yes, that's how it works. At some point, there's a big step down in performance, not a gradual decline, a point at which your body says I can't take this. Since reading this, I've started feeling my age (I'm now 70). I've noticed, just in the last few days, that the aches, painful knees and lack of mobility are affecting my swimming. Thanks for making me think about it!

This is such an interesting conversation. When I began swimming Masters in 2005 at the age of 60, after a 41 year break from competitive swimming, someone told me I'd get 7 good years of improvement. As it turned out, I pretty much had a new best time in every event for about 8 years. Then not so often. My last best time was in 2012 at the age of 67. At first, the decline was very subtle, but at 69, I felt as if I were falling off a cliff. At 69 I had major spinal reconstruction and as expected, I took more backward steps. When I aged up at 70, I had a great year, with times close to my best. But at 71, I'm frustrated by really slow comparative times. I honestly believe that everyone ages in their own way, and we can go from a gradual slope to a precipitous cliff in spite of our training. Also, I've noticed more impediments to training due to physical issues, travel, family dedications, and a more thoughtful approach to life, savoring more moments outside of swimming. Allen Stark will always be awesome, always be on the leading edge of the age group, and always at the top of the rankings. Time is relative!

consider, older, slower, but maybe swimming farther? I did a one and a half mile swim a year and a half ago. I was 39. I believe in the contrary movement: The older you get, the more important becomes strength training. Strength and muscle mass apparently can be stabilised, but from a certain age on that doesn't work anymore with swimming alone, but weight training must be added -- stronger impulses are needed.

I believe in the contrary movement: The older you get, the more important becomes strength training. Strength and muscle mass apparently can be stabilised, but from a certain age on that doesn't work anymore with swimming alone, but weight training must be added -- stronger impulses are needed. I would like to amend Oliver's advice to read "Fewer, stronger impulses are needed" Muscle mass loss is inevitable with aging. The first ones to go are fast twitch. So we are unable to "spin up" our stroke rates like we used to. But as Oliver and the great story on muscle aging in Swimmer point out resistance training can help most people. And by taking fewer, stronger strokes we do gain some drag reduction and efficiency as every stroke does increase drag a bit. On a related issue have any of my fellow "older and slower" buddies noticed the following: My kick sets have not slowed down speed wise as much compared to swim times. There was a thread several years ago in this forum which stated that leg muscle is different than upper body muscle in composition. Somewhat like dark vs white meat in fowls. The point is that as we age should we make changes to our stroke that rely on more propulsion from our kick and less from our arms?

Getting older can mean a limited daily activities but I think, it only depends on your lifestyle issues.