Prime years for male swimming.

Originally posted by cinc310 I'm not talking about times. But that she is able to compete against girls and women younger than her. ... The www.swimnews.com web site's section on 'Rankings' is not available at the moment, so my post is from the top of my head. What I write now, can be checked later on, in www.swimnews.com, section 'Rankings'. The equalizer of gender specific performances, is the system of FINA points, as opposed to absolute times -which are faster for top men than for top women-: the world record for women in 50 meter free is about 24.32 by Inge de Bruijn (Ned) worth about 1,000 FINA points in the women category; the same time in the men category is around 850 FINA points. For people over the age of 30: the most FINA points by a woman is by Dara Torres (US) in the year 2000 at age 33. Her 50 meter free in 24.7x is worth about 970 FINA points; the most FINA points by a man is by Alex Popov (Rus), last year at age 30, in 50 meter free at 21.91 and 1,000 FINA points; Karoly Gutler (Hun), a man, did swim three weeks ago a 100 meter breastroke in 1:01.3x, worth in excess of 980 FINA points; he is 34 years old and he competes against a 13 year old Hungarian boy who did a 2:16 in 200 meter breastroke, which you noticed in "There is a 13 year old boy from eastern europe that swims 200 meter breastroke under 2:20...". It is you Cynthia, who wrote that older women "...compete at a higher level than men.", giving the example of Pan Pacific games and Jenny Thompson who swam individually at age 29, while Chad Carvin swam in a relay; this is a gender war, that I counteract with examples of top men. Dara Torres, Alex Popov, Karoly Guttler, and everyone I mentioned in this thread, they are upholding exceptional standards of longer prime years than ever before, as it is expressed in the post below. Originally posted by MegSmath ... What both Jenny and Laura demonstrate is that someone who is an elite swimmer to begin with can remain an elite swimmer by continuing to train very hard long past the age when most people become couch potatoes. ...

No one in the 1970's would think that any women could swim decent passed 25 years old. The theory is that they peak younger on average than guys, so they are going to be reaching their peak much earlier. There are some men that also swim better older but others do not, like some women don't. I remember a teenage sensation whose name was Rick Demont. He could have won two gold medals in the olympics if they didn't take his medal away and prohibtioning him from swimming the 1500 meter freestyle. He was just 16 years old at the time. By 1975 and 1976, Tim Shaw and Brain Goodell took his place. Thanks goodness Ion that there is a little more money in the sport, so both men and women can afford to do it at top levels at older ages. Also, that there is masters around for those of us that were a long ways from the top, so we can compete as young adults and middle aged people and seniors.

Originally posted by cinc310 ... Yet, Jenny is still performing at a higher level than Chad is. She won the 50 meter freestyle at the pan-pacfics, while Chad only placed on the relay. So, is it possible that some woman especially at the masters level can compete at a higher level than men, just look at Laura Val who is over 50 years old. This "...higher level..." is relative to the range of what are good performances by women. In absolute times, the top men do swim faster than the top women. For example, at Pan Pacific Games, 29 years old Jenny Thompson just swam a lifetime best of 25.15 -I think- in 50 meter free, which as an absolute time for international competition for men, is so-so. A Master swimmer, Paul Smith (US), age 43, last year did 24.74 in 50 meter free, while first holding a family and full time work, then part-time swimming. A top time for an older man, scoring more FINA points in the men category than Jenny Thompson's 25.15 does in the women category, is 1:01.3x -I think, worth about 990 FINA points- in 100 meter breastroke Long Course, by Karoly Guttler (Hun), age 34, in this month' European Championships. That's way more FINA points, than 25.15 in women does, and he is age 34, not 29. His performance and the 3:57.74 in 400 meter free by Jure Bucar (Slo) in 2000 at age 34, are the highest international level attained by older people, that I am aware of. At Masters level, in distance, Jim McConica (US), just swam 17.27.xx in 1500 meter free. Other Masters men's times are in this range. These absolute Masters men times, overtake women's Masters times. Men and women have different hormones, different performances, and different races to do.

I'm not talking about times. But that she is able to compete against girls and women younger than her. But the gap has drop in times. But men will have faster times because of upper-body strength.

So, you learn that late to swim. I got to learn a little from my dad at 6 years old at the mobile home park pool and then every summer until 11 years old I learn at the municipal pool. Then at 11 years old I learned butterfly at a private swim school, and working out on a novice team just before my 12th birthday. Anyway, I didn't end up being the swimmer my dad wanted as a kid. He tried when I was 14 years old switching to a team like Huntington Beach that had elite age group swimmers like Shirley Babashoff. The last AAU team I was on was in-between the novice and elite team. The last two years I only workout during the community college season. So late starters shouldn't be that discouarge, there are a lot of ex-age groupers that never qualified for either senior nationals and even JR nationals. The last team I was on wanted to put a relay together for JR nationals but the coach stated that my Fly had to be a couple seconds faster for us to go, so we didn't go.

Hey Cynthia, Here's another one for you. I recently heard of a story about which a former runner who joined a local Masters team because he was tired of running. So he decided he would like to try competitive swimming as a change of pace. It seems that he's doing darned good so far and keeps up pretty well with the rest of the group for his age. Oops! Did I forget to mention his age? I undersrand that he's 80 or thereabout. This certainly supports Ion's last post, to my way of thinking.

Well, I do have to give credit to some older gentlemen. I think that the oldest person to swim 200 butterfly is a man who was in his early 90's. No woman I think has done that yet at that age. I don't know who has the most swimmers in the 95 plus age group. Granted, women live between 5 to 3 years longer than most men in most western and Japanese countries, yet I think that there is a few older gentlemen in masters in the 95 plus age bracket. Anway, I got mad at the TV for putting baseball in place of the US nationals. No wonder we don't get respect. And rememeber us women were treated as second class for a long time in sports until the mid-1970's. So many people in their 60's are probably going to have more guys try sports in their senior years since women in that age group where not encouarge as much when they were younger. Getting out of swimming for a little while. You probably read the Robert Graves novels I Claudius and Claudius the god or watch the BBC series based on it. Remember Livia finished at the finished line of life after Augustus and according to Graves and his source Tactius she was setting up Tiberius to rule Rome by poison. Us Women find a way to get ahead of things by our own methods.

I post in order to emphasize this: Originally posted by cinc310 ... Thanks goodness Ion that there is a little more money in the sport, so both men and women can afford to do it at top levels at older ages. ... Exactly. Originally posted by cinc310 ...Also, that there is masters around for those of us that were a long ways from the top, ... ... Also for late starters like me: I met lots of swimmers who would give me the excuse for not persisting by saying that being late starters meant they couldn't achieve much, until I told them that I learned swimming at age 25. Originally posted by cinc310 ...so we can compete as young adults and middle aged people and seniors. Yes.

So, Cynthia, perhaps Caesar didn't write Veni, Vidi, Vici, but could it have been a woman, instead? :D In all honesty, I don't disagree wtih your last post, either.

Maybe, he got that expression Veni, Vidi, Vici, from Cleopatria the seven, last of the ptolemies. BUt she was a Greek, and most greeks in those days didn't like to learn latin. Plutrach in the life of Antony said she knew several languages, so maybe she learn latin like the Roman upper class also learn greek. Caesar said it in his victory over Pharnaces I think in 47 B.C