Question to throw to the group out of curiosity -- What do people think about reasonable seed times for swim meets? Now, I know that people almost always enter masters meets with times that are best guesses, but what about entry times that are definitely not best guesses?
Hypothetical scenario: 400 IM and 50 free are back-to-back events at an end-of-season championship meet. Swimmer enters both events, with a time of 15:00.00 for the 400 IM, and 23.50 for the 50 free. For other events in the meet, the same swimmer is entered at 2:06 for the 200 IM, 2:10 for the 200 fly, etc. So _clearly_ this person is faster than 15:00 in the 400 IM. When asked, the swimmer says, honestly, that the seed time is bogus so that he has a longer rest before swimming the 50 free right afterwards. (The meet info for this hypothetical situation does _not_ allow for 'NT' entries.)
What do people think about this? I can't find any USMS rule that prohibits this, but it feels rather unfair to the other people in Heat 1 who actually do belong in Heat 1, and will have some fast person in an outside lane lap them a couple times. My personal feeling is that if the order of events doesn't work for you, then don't swim one of the events.
Thoughts?
-Rick
I'll re-chime in here.... Personally, my concern isn't really of the 200 fly being swum during the 200 free. That happens, and it _is_ freestyle. And especially if the seed time is representative, I see that as an OK thing.
Also, adjusting seed times a bit because you aren't in good shape, etc... I find that _responsible_ rather than irresponsible. You're doing your part to out yourself in "the right heat". If you're wrong (you swim better than you expected), fine. But I would still applaud you for having the good honest intent.
For me, true sandbagging is just as bad as the opposite. Consider the complete reverse situation. It's the 50 free. You're seeded 9th in the event. So (8 lane pool), you're fastest person in the second-fastest heat. You don't get to swim against the fast guys in the fastest heat. Then you watch the fastest heat, and find out that the top seed is some bozo who was playing around and seeded himself at a 19.99 for kicks. In reality, he's someone who finishes in 35 seconds. There was no way this person would have ever gone 19.9 in the 50. He just wanted to be in the fastest heat, because he was in the previous event, and wanted as much time between swims. And because of the bogus seed time, you (the 9th seed) lost the opportunity to swim in the fastest seeded heat. Is this fair? Personally, I don't think so.
Note also there are plenty of other swimming contexts (I know! not masters!) where at championship meets, you are _required_ to enter with your best times for the qualifying period.
I don't want to police times. I know masters swimming is different. And I'm interested to read the different opinions expressed here. That's why I posted the scenario.
I also think it's pretty clear that there's no strict rule against this. And as much as maybe I'd like to, you'd be hard pressed to actually get a meet referee to invole the "unsportsmanlike conduct" clause for something like this. So to those who only say "Since it's not illegal, it's legal", well, that's not what I'm after.
The question is do you think it _should_ be allowed or not allowed.
-Rick
I'll re-chime in here.... Personally, my concern isn't really of the 200 fly being swum during the 200 free. That happens, and it _is_ freestyle. And especially if the seed time is representative, I see that as an OK thing.
Also, adjusting seed times a bit because you aren't in good shape, etc... I find that _responsible_ rather than irresponsible. You're doing your part to out yourself in "the right heat". If you're wrong (you swim better than you expected), fine. But I would still applaud you for having the good honest intent.
For me, true sandbagging is just as bad as the opposite. Consider the complete reverse situation. It's the 50 free. You're seeded 9th in the event. So (8 lane pool), you're fastest person in the second-fastest heat. You don't get to swim against the fast guys in the fastest heat. Then you watch the fastest heat, and find out that the top seed is some bozo who was playing around and seeded himself at a 19.99 for kicks. In reality, he's someone who finishes in 35 seconds. There was no way this person would have ever gone 19.9 in the 50. He just wanted to be in the fastest heat, because he was in the previous event, and wanted as much time between swims. And because of the bogus seed time, you (the 9th seed) lost the opportunity to swim in the fastest seeded heat. Is this fair? Personally, I don't think so.
Note also there are plenty of other swimming contexts (I know! not masters!) where at championship meets, you are _required_ to enter with your best times for the qualifying period.
I don't want to police times. I know masters swimming is different. And I'm interested to read the different opinions expressed here. That's why I posted the scenario.
I also think it's pretty clear that there's no strict rule against this. And as much as maybe I'd like to, you'd be hard pressed to actually get a meet referee to invole the "unsportsmanlike conduct" clause for something like this. So to those who only say "Since it's not illegal, it's legal", well, that's not what I'm after.
The question is do you think it _should_ be allowed or not allowed.
-Rick
