Swimming against your age group

1st - i agree!!! but notice it is never the 50 free that gets pulled out. the distance people always get screwed. basically what this comes down to is that...because your race takes longer it is not of the same "caliber level" as the 50free. they (the championship group) basically is saying that because your race takes so much time, we wont allow you to win a national championship. yes, you could pick the 1500 as event #1 and 800 as event #2 and 50 as event #6, but if they dont allow you to enter both the 1500 and 800 The 50 free would get "pulled out" if it were your 6th event. This is pretty whiney. There are already loads of freestyle events. Would you rather that the distance specialists take over whatever time is allotted for nationals? We could just have long distance nationals? Swimmers don't even swim both the 800 and 1500 at the Olympics. And you can still get an AA in the event if you swim it at Zones or another meet. No one gets to swim every event they want at nationals. As Chris notes, sometimes logic and efficiency have to trump "nice in theory" at a national level event.

The 50 free would get "pulled out" if it were your 6th event. This is pretty whiney. There are already loads of freestyle events. Would you rather that the distance specialists take over whatever time is allotted for nationals? We could just have long distance nationals? Swimmers don't even swim both the 800 and 1500 at the Olympics. And you can still get an AA in the event if you swim it at Zones or another meet. No one gets to swim every event they want at nationals. As Chris notes, sometimes logic and efficiency have to trump "nice in theory" at a national level event. "Would you rather that the distance specialists take over whatever time is allotted for nationals?" thanks for proving my point. you did an EXCELLENT job of that!!! could not have said it better. way to go!!! we the non-distance swimmers dont deem your events worthy of sitting through, therefore they shouldnt be allowed at nationals. perfectly said.

Never for 50s or 100s. I think the time difference would be minimal. I could see 200 and up if there was one "final" heat" for each age group with lots of flexibility in the age groups that don't fill a heat. My strategy for the 400 IM last year at Greensboro (M65-69) was probably different because I was able to spot my competition than if I were in a heat of my seed time. And I probably wouldn't have been seeded next to an old foe who hadn't raced me side by side in 50 years!

we the non-distance swimmers dont deem your events worthy of sitting through Weren't you just bragging about a 100 fly race against Chris? I guess that's out for you. And the 100 free you were all revved up for after getting beat in the 500? Gone. From now on, you're limited to the 800/1000 and 1500/1650. Maybe you should just shift to postal events or OW swims if all you're interested in or deem "worthy" is distance. And, again, none of us get to swim all the events we want at nationals. Buck up, supposed tough distance swimmer! You're whinier than a sprinter. :)

but not the 800/1000/1500/1650. in those races there is simply too big a gap in placings to allow it. there was over 6min 40secs of difference in our own age group 1500 1st to last. however most of those were pretty darn accurate on their entry time. I agree that those events can never really be seeded within gender/age-group unless the meet is very poorly attended (or distance swimmers just decide not to show up!). As far as entry time accuracy, it only takes one person per heat to throw off a time line. Yesterday every so often I would look in on the "last completed heat" of the mile. The first people were the ones who beat their entry time by minutes...and the last people in the heat were the ones who were 1-2 minutes off their entry times. Multiply that by 30 heats and it is pretty significant.

Anyone know what time the mile ended last night, even with mixed gender seeding by time only? I wonder when it would have ended if seeding had been within gender/AG?Chris, I’m not sure what time the meet ended yesterday, but just looking at the results option 1 “Yes” could have added over 2 hours to the session.

I'm on the young end of the spectrum (in masters) at 29...so perhaps my thinking is skewed here. But, if I were a 60 year old who can still beat plenty of people 2-3 decades younger than me wouldnt it be sweet? At the end of the day it's best to compete with people that will push you to swim your fastest. Do you think Ryan Lochte says he won't swim agajnst anyone under 18 because they ate too young? Seed the heats slow to fast or the other way around, regardless of age.

I think this timeline dilemma could be solved by imposing National cut times (by age group and gender of course). This isn't unheard of in the swim world, it happens at almost every big meet around the US and world. This would make for a much more enjoyable meet for all; swimmers, coaches, spectators and especially those volunteering their time for us. and not to rock the pool on this one :) but how about proof of times? If anyone saw the 1500s last night it appeared that anyone could have swam and entered any time they wanted. All but the final heats were all over the place with their times.

In my opinion (only) unless Nationals is going to start cutting entries based off qualifying times, then you may as well just go swim your event against whatever gender/age swims comparably. In the end, it's just you and the clock, anyway.

I would prioritize as follows: First, six events. For the first time in my experience, LCM nats this year dropped the 6th event. If I'm going to spend $1000 or more to go to a freakin' swimming meet, fer gawsh sakes, please let me swim all six events. Second, age groups. If I'm going to a national championships, fer gawsh sakes, I want to race against the top guys in my age group. As a spectator, I want to watch races for the national championship. Stevenson vs. pwb vs. others in the 500 free at Greensboro was definitely worth the price of admission. Abrahams 100 free at GaTech 2010 will be remembered forever. Stark 200 *** at Auburn 2011. Need I say more? Age groups are a key feature at nats, even in events 200+. Third, timeline. I appreciate and adore all meet officials and volunteers. I'd like to get them home 20 minutes earlier too! But at the same time, I'd plead with them to stay 20 or 40 minutes longer for the benefit of the competitors, who after spending $1000+, would like to swim 6 races, and the spectators, who enjoy the thrill of victory / agony of defeat thing. I think they'd go along with that. :2cents: YES, YES, and YES!!! :applaud: I agree with every word, Swimosaur. :agree: I especially agree with the examples you provided, because the two most memorable races I have ever seen at Nationals were King Frog breaking the world record at Auburn and Rich at Georgia Tech. (I missed the other race at Greensboro; I must have been in the warm up pool...). I still watch the video I shot of King Frog from time to time; it was an awesome race! As for the 6th event argument, I have made my point elsewhere on the forums. :bitching: Your second point is irrelevant for me personally, because I am at the bottom in my age group and feel just lucky to be able to "race" (my body put that in quotes; my mind is willing, but the body isn't...). BUT, I understand how you and others feel about it. And, I would want that for my Forumite buddies! Great post, Swimosaur! And, if I may hijack this for just a moment, Diann is having an awesome Nationals! :applaud: It was an honor to swim on a relay with her!!! She is one class act as a swimmer and a person.