Swimming against your age group

Where is the choice answer, "The national committee will consult me personally to see how I am feeling, my assessment of the psych sheet and what I think will give me the best race/lane/etc?" :) On a purist level, I agree with the folks who say Nationals should be special and the chance to swim against your age group peers. On a personal level, I can go any way the heat sheet gets laid out.

I would prioritize as follows: First, six events. For the first time in my experience, LCM nats this year dropped the 6th event. If I'm going to spend $1000 or more to go to a freakin' swimming meet, fer gawsh sakes, please let me swim all six events. Second, age groups. If I'm going to a national championships, fer gawsh sakes, I want to race against the top guys in my age group. As a spectator, I want to watch races for the national championship. Stevenson vs. pwb vs. others in the 500 free at Greensboro was definitely worth the price of admission. Abrahams 100 free at GaTech 2010 will be remembered forever. Stark 200 *** at Auburn 2011. Need I say more? Age groups are a key feature at nats, even in events 200+. Third, timeline. I appreciate and adore all meet officials and volunteers. I'd like to get them home 20 minutes earlier too! But at the same time, I'd plead with them to stay 20 or 40 minutes longer for the benefit of the competitors, who after spending $1000+, would like to swim 6 races, and the spectators, who enjoy the thrill of victory / agony of defeat thing. I think they'd go along with that. :2cents:

I think this timeline dilemma could be solved by imposing National cut times (by age group and gender of course). This isn't unheard of in the swim world, it happens at almost every big meet around the US and world. This would make for a much more enjoyable meet for all; swimmers, coaches, spectators and especially those volunteering their time for us. There are NQT's (National Qualifying Times) posted for every meet. They do go by age group and gender for each event at the meet. However, it doesn't sound like they are enforced. They do allow you to swim 3 events without qualifying, then you're supposed to qualify to swim more. I attended just 1 nationals, when it was local, and I volunteered to help for most of the time I was there. If I couldn't swim, you'd lose yourself a volunteer, and I don't think I'm alone in that. I'm not sure how exactly they seed for the NE SCM meet in Boston, but that's one meet that runs exceptionally well. I've done it twice. I'm by far not a fast swimmer, but I usually end up with a few guys around age seeded in my heat for the 400 free. Yea I do sometimes get to swim against some faster guys 20+ years older, but I'm used to that from local meets. And I don't pay $1000 to travel and swim in a meet, I don't even think half that.

I'm on the young end of the spectrum (in masters) at 29...so perhaps my thinking is skewed here. But, if I were a 60 year old who can still beat plenty of people 2-3 decades younger than me wouldnt it be sweet? At the end of the day it's best to compete with people that will push you to swim your fastest. Do you think Ryan Lochte says he won't swim agajnst anyone under 18 because they ate too young? Seed the heats slow to fast or the other way around, regardless of age. Here is a problem with that, which was alluded to above.People don't do there seed times.This is particularly true for the less experience swimmers(please no sandbagging discussion.)Barring injury or illness I pretty much know what the guys I "worry"about in my age group swim.When I go to the SPMS SCM Zone meet I am usually swimming with younger swimmers in my heat and their times are generally not close to their entry times.A couple of years ago there, in the 200 BR, I was seeded 4th in the heat,finished second and was a second slower than my entry time.I was also the only one who split less than 6 sec slower on the first to second 100(I went out too fast,part of why I didn't get my seed time.)

Anyone know what time the mile ended last night, even with mixed gender seeding by time only? 10:15 pm...between reverse sandbagging, no shows, and medical mishaps, a brutal day.

I would prioritize as follows: First, six events. For the first time in my experience, LCM nats this year dropped the 6th event. If I'm going to spend $1000 or more to go to a freakin' swimming meet, fer gawsh sakes, please let me swim all six events. QUOTE] They dropped the 6th event in 2009. However, it was all good because I got 5 Top Ten rankings from that meet. I like swimming against my age group but, I get it if it has to be mixed/by gender in the 400IM, 400 free and 800 and 1500 free. Overall, I am just glad that they are putting the 800 and 1500 on different days even though I am stuck here on the East Coast, :(

I would prioritize as follows: First, six events. For the first time in my experience, LCM nats this year dropped the 6th event. If I'm going to spend $1000 or more to go to a freakin' swimming meet, fer gawsh sakes, please let me swim all six events. Second, age groups. If I'm going to a national championships, fer gawsh sakes, I want to race against the top guys in my age group. As a spectator, I want to watch races for the national championship. Stevenson vs. pwb vs. others in the 500 free at Greensboro was definitely worth the price of admission. Third, timeline. I appreciate and adore all meet officials and volunteers. I'd like to get them home 20 minutes earlier too! But at the same time, I'd plead with them to stay 20 or 40 minutes longer for the benefit of the competitors, who after spending $1000+, would like to swim 6 races, and the spectators, who enjoy the thrill of victory / agony of defeat thing. I think they'd go along with that. :2cents: 1st - i agree!!! but notice it is never the 50 free that gets pulled out. the distance people always get screwed. basically what this comes down to is that...because your race takes longer it is not of the same "caliber level" as the 50free. they (the championship group) basically is saying that because your race takes so much time, we wont allow you to win a national championship. yes, you could pick the 1500 as event #1 and 800 as event #2 and 50 as event #6, but if they dont allow you to enter both the 1500 and 800 then it really didnt matter did it? no! they chose which event you can swim for you. nice isnt it? 2nd - yes, there were 7 national champions in that race. and by that i mean at that meet, 7 of us in that event won 7 different races that weekend. that was probably my worst 500 in memory. however, it gave me a lot of fire for the 100free later in the day. :D next time those guys wont be so lucky. now i've got this plastic bionic screw in my arm/shoulder holding me together for that last 50! i wish i could see a video of that race. i want to know what color my arms and back turned because they felt like stone. 3rd - the timeline is very fluid with no-shows and then somebody (as an example: enters 2:40 in the 200free and goes 3:59) can really mess with it in a big way. or say you have heat after heat where the entire heat doesnt even make the NQT/WQT.

The Canadian nationals I have been to have been to have always kept men and women separate but for 200m events and above seeded by time and not age. For the most part it is good, although I think it would be better if you could put the top 3 or 4 at least in the same heat.

So quite a few people are saying that seeding should be within gender/age-group for ALL events, presumably including distance events. That sure sounds nice in theory. Anyone know what time the mile ended last night, even with mixed gender seeding by time only? I wonder when it would have ended if seeding had been within gender/AG? I remember counting for a teammate at nationals in Oregon at 10:30pm, which had seeding by time only (mixed gender and AGs). That means that for him, being from the East Coast, he was swimming at 1:30am by his internal clock. And he wasn't even in the last heat. Of course, I would argue that he had plenty of incentive to swim fast, since he didn't want to get "chicked" by Eney Jones in the same heat.:) Actually, for me a (much) more important issue is adequate space in the warm-up pool than any questions of seeding.

chris, i think the 500y/400m and 400im should be gender/age time seeded. if at all possible. and by that i mean this is 2013. it takes a computer less than the 0.09 you beat me in the 100 fly in italy to seed the entire meet. let-alone just 1 event. if this was the 1970s and we still used the cards (ie re-printed computer punch cards btw) it would be different. the seeding can be shown to the meet director the very morning after entries are no longer accepted. how much more time is taken by gender/age time seeding would be known weeks in advance. weeks!!! but not the 800/1000/1500/1650. in those races there is simply too big a gap in placings to allow it. there was over 6min 40secs of difference in our own age group 1500 1st to last. however most of those were pretty darn accurate on their entry time.