Major 1650 sandbagging by a forum member

Perhaps this person is going for a split? I did that double last August in a long course meet but I was going for a 400 split in the 1500. My estimated time still put me in the final heat of the 1500 so it didn't gain me any rest. Actually I think the 400 IM was first in that meet.

UCLA swim meet this past Sunday. A person in the 40-44 age group put a 50 minute seed time, and swam it in 22:29.68. It was the only event this person swam. I'll keep my comments to myself on this one. I forgot to take my multivitamin and still managed to swim it in 28:36.13.

wow and it's not Kurt Dickson (jab jab as i know he is not going, and neither am i). hmmmm. cant be pwb, he's not going either. and there is no rule (ie in the book nor championship) that says you cant sandbag. so, bob, exactly how would you write such an anti-sandbagging rule? would it be required to put in their best time for the last 2 years? best time this year? best masters time in that age group? what if they have had surgery (as i'm about too) since their last swim in that event? do you limit it do just events over 500? (ie 800m/1000y/1500m/1650) or do you include the 400ims and 400m/500y as well? why not the 50? putting in a time 1/2secs slower is pretty significant as well! what if i have never swam the 1650 (and i havent as a masters)? what is a sandbag time for me? do you take into account that i've been national champ in the 1000 or not? if so, how are you extrapolating my 1650 time? in my talks with Rob Butcher when he was down here with the LA issue, we discussed this very topic because of the early entry time requirements for nationals (which were closed a week plus before the zones meet he was attending) and he said that they do look for sandbagger times and somehow adjust them. neither of us seemed to know the specifics on how thats done. steve

wow and it's not Kurt Dickson (jab jab as i know he is not going, and neither am i). hmmmm. cant be pwb, he's not going either. and there is no rule (ie in the book nor championship) that says you cant sandbag. so, bob, exactly how would you write such an anti-sandbagging rule? would it be required to put in their best time for the last 2 years? best time this year? best masters time in that age group? what if they have had surgery (as i'm about too) since their last swim in that event? do you limit it do just events over 500? (ie 800m/1000y/1500m/1650) or do you include the 400ims and 400m/500y as well? why not the 50? putting in a time 1/2secs slower is pretty significant as well! what if i have never swam the 1650 (and i havent as a masters)? what is a sandbag time for me? do you take into account that i've been national champ in the 1000 or not? if so, how are you extrapolating my 1650 time? in my talks with Rob Butcher when he was down here with the LA issue, we discussed this very topic because of the early entry time requirements for nationals (which were closed a week plus before the zones meet he was attending) and he said that they do look for sandbagger times and somehow adjust them. neither of us seemed to know the specifics on how thats done. steve I don't know how you would write or word such a rule but honestly sandbaggers don't bother me. I figure we're all out there with different goals, talents, an

exactly how would you write such an anti-sandbagging rule?Any swimmer whose final time varies from his seed time by more than 6.626% shall be disqualified. This rule uses the male pronoun because sandbagging is for the most part a male shenanigan. And the rule uses 6.626, because who doesn’t love Planck's Constant?

there is no rule (ie in the book nor championship) that says you cant sandbag. 104.5.5A(11) If a swimmer enters an event with a time significantly slower or faster than that swimmer's recorded time in the past two years, the meet director may, after a discussion with the swimmer, change the seeded time to a realistic time. (Article 104 is specifically for nationals.)

Unless there are meet rules against it, in my opinion, it is "fair play". I admit I have used Strategic Fatigue Management principles myself. I use them whenever I'm in a meet where I have to swim multiple events and some of those events are back to back. My thoughts are, I've trained how many months for this big meet and just because the lineup may not provide the rest my body needs to perform, why should I not use every legal advantage I can to perform at my peak. I'm not trying to psych anyone out or gain clean water advantage, I'm just trying to maximize my rest. Its not usual for me to swim 11 events in 2 days so using a no time or slow seed here or there doesnt really other me. If it were my only event, however, I wouldnt do it. Then again a scheduling conflict with life may require it. I'd rather have someone come and swim (in the spirit of USMS) than not because of a life event.

Perhaps this person is going for a split? I did that double last August in a long course meet but I was going for a 400 split in the 1500. My estimated time still put me in the final heat of the 1500 so it didn't gain me any rest. Actually I think the 400 IM was first in that meet.Rumor has it there will be a split request at the 200, followed by splits sufficient to just dip under the 20 minute mark so that this individual is not too tired for the cool event of the day, 400 IM. Now, had SPMA had a single event purchase price like Pacific Masters did last fall for their SCM champs, maybe this individual wouldn't have felt compelled to try to maximize the entry fee for the one day of the meet they can attend. At least that is what I have heard offline:bolt:

Unless there are meet rules against it, in my opinion, it is "fair play". I admit I have used Strategic Fatigue Management principles myself. I use them whenever I'm in a meet where I have to swim multiple events and some of those events are back to back. My thoughts are, I've trained how many months for this big meet and just because the lineup may not provide the rest my body needs to perform, why should I not use every legal advantage I can to perform at my peak. I'm not trying to psych anyone out or gain clean water advantage, I'm just trying to maximize my rest. Its not usual for me to swim 11 events in 2 days so using a no time or slow seed here or there doesnt really other me. If it were my only event, however, I wouldnt do it. Then again a scheduling conflict with life may require it. I'd rather have someone come and swim (in the spirit of USMS) than not because of a life event. I totally agree with waves101. If sandbaggers bother you (or anyone) tremendously you should petition to the rules committee to add a rule disallowing sandbagging, otherwise it's fair game.

Split request never entered my mind but makes perfect sense in this case.