Though this topic has received some attention in various threads over the years, it is the dead of winter, and I think that those of us in the Northeast, at least, could do with a little blood boiling to warm up the extremities!
To this end, I am wondering how many of my fellow swimmers have had swim times disallowed ex post facto in USMS sanctioned meets, and if so, for what reason?
As some of you who read my blog may recall, I have had a number of TT-worthy times disallowed for various reasons over the years, ranging from lack of timeliness in submitting the paperwork, to swimming a couple races in the "Open" category.
Recently, I have had my first and only All American swim retroactively yanked, some five weeks after the Top 10 list was officially published. Obviously, this is not as bad as those unfortunate souls who have had World Records declared ineligible for consideration.
Nevertheless, it does sting. I invite you to read the details of my De-All'ing (from my perspective) here: byjimthornton.com/.../
Note: I do not question the right of USMS to have rules more stringent than USA-S and FINA. What I do believe is unfair to us swimmers is when these rules apply to us but not to those in charge of making sure that all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed when they secure sanctions for meets and collect the meet fees. My own AA-rescinded swim was done at Michael Phelps's famous pool, the North Baltimore Aquatics Club, in a meet that had a USMS sanction number. Skip Thompson, who traveled from Michigan to swim in this meet, told me he asked about the pool measurement and was told that it was on file. There were no bulkheads involved. I did not make the mistake of swimming in an "open" event. I feel I did everything right this time!
I also feel that the USMS rule book is so dense and complex that it's hopeless for swimmers to know if they are complying. I feel like the mole in a game of bureaucratic whack-a-mole!
Anyhow, if you have your own examples of TT or All American or even World Record times that were rescinded after the fact, please use this thread to post them!
The Montreal pool had been measured according to the practice of Canadian Masters. The NBAC pool was measured to be 2/1000 of an inch short in two lanes when empty. An engineer posted that it was his opinion in light of his expertise that the pool would be correct when filled. The hydrostatic pressure would push the walls back especially in the middle of the pool. In both situations the pools were ok, the application of the rules was in the circumstances, too harsh. The fact that FINA accepted the Canadian times and USSA accepts the NBAC times is also a factor to consider.I probably should clarify a couple things on this:
* I am a mechanical engineer and solved simple hydrostatic problems in school but I'm mostly a software developer now.
* It's impossible to quantify how much the pool would shrink due to lack of hydrostatic pressure because I just don't know anything about the actual construction of the pool. IF (and this is a big if) the pool were EXACTLY in compliance before they emptied the pool, I would expect the hydrostatic pressure to take the pool out of compliance. Same thing with the thermal contraction.
* I've read through various tales that the pool is somewhere between 5 inches and 2/1000 inches out of compliance. If it is the former, I don't expect it to be in compliance when filled and warmed... but i could be wrong. If it is the latter, I expect warming alone will bring it back into compliance... but I could be wrong.
* I do think Jim's swim is legit and his efforts were outstanding but I'm firmly in the camp that they never should have been considered for TT in the first place. Someone did him a huge favor in going back and attempting to remeasure the pool even if the conditions were less than ideal.
* I personally wouldn't have a problem with remeasuring the pool in the spring and then reinstating Jim's time. However, if I were USMS, I'd think carefully before proceeding. It seems that this story is rife with attempts to fix mistakes that just end up making the situation worse.
The Montreal pool had been measured according to the practice of Canadian Masters. The NBAC pool was measured to be 2/1000 of an inch short in two lanes when empty. An engineer posted that it was his opinion in light of his expertise that the pool would be correct when filled. The hydrostatic pressure would push the walls back especially in the middle of the pool. In both situations the pools were ok, the application of the rules was in the circumstances, too harsh. The fact that FINA accepted the Canadian times and USSA accepts the NBAC times is also a factor to consider.I probably should clarify a couple things on this:
* I am a mechanical engineer and solved simple hydrostatic problems in school but I'm mostly a software developer now.
* It's impossible to quantify how much the pool would shrink due to lack of hydrostatic pressure because I just don't know anything about the actual construction of the pool. IF (and this is a big if) the pool were EXACTLY in compliance before they emptied the pool, I would expect the hydrostatic pressure to take the pool out of compliance. Same thing with the thermal contraction.
* I've read through various tales that the pool is somewhere between 5 inches and 2/1000 inches out of compliance. If it is the former, I don't expect it to be in compliance when filled and warmed... but i could be wrong. If it is the latter, I expect warming alone will bring it back into compliance... but I could be wrong.
* I do think Jim's swim is legit and his efforts were outstanding but I'm firmly in the camp that they never should have been considered for TT in the first place. Someone did him a huge favor in going back and attempting to remeasure the pool even if the conditions were less than ideal.
* I personally wouldn't have a problem with remeasuring the pool in the spring and then reinstating Jim's time. However, if I were USMS, I'd think carefully before proceeding. It seems that this story is rife with attempts to fix mistakes that just end up making the situation worse.
