I've been swimming for Masters for 34 yrs (age 58 on 1/27/13) and like to swim 6 days/week, 4000 to 6000 yds/day, across most of the year, taking maybe 2 weeks off per year. Obviously, I tend to get tired over time. The key issue seems to be how tired is too tired??? I've read Maglischo's books ("Swimming Fast", "Swimming Faster") and he uses a % effort formulation based on HR and/or best time in an event. If you're doing repeats at say 30-50% slower than your best race time, is there value in that from the long term development perspective??? When I rest and taper for a meet or race, I seem to recover pretty well and I'm much closer to the national 55-59 records than I was in the 25-29 AG, so it seems like I must be doing something right, but wondered what long-time Masters swimmers thoughts are. Also, FWIW, I do most of my training on my own, but just race whoever happens to be in the pool.
Ya, I have just always been the type of swimmer who doesn't really get warmed up for 30-45 minutes. My 34-year average yardage is about 18,500 yds/week, 50 wks/yr, so I haven't always gone 30K/wk, but like to when I'm not doing triathlons. I've done around 108 triathlons during this time period so, when I'm biking and running a lot, I just can't swim as much.
What are your target races?
If you're enjoying the training, your body is holding up well and you're happy with your racing, keep it up.
I'm mainly a distance freestyler but like also to swim all 5 of the 200s and the 400 IM at your typical 2.5 day meet, so that I get good workout at the meet. So far, the body is holding up fine, and I've been doing a lot of kicking to avoid straining the shoulders.
I'm mainly a distance freestyler but like also to swim all 5 of the 200s and the 400 IM at your typical 2.5 day meet, so that I get good workout at the meet. So far, the body is holding up fine, and I've been doing a lot of kicking to avoid straining the shoulders.
As i think you probably know, your body builds muscle when it recovers, not when it's working out and tired. Inadequate recovery will result in little or no gains. I think its more of question of how much recovery do you need to avoid over training and loss of training benefit, especially considering the tri training. Also, how you are training during the 30k/wk, and what are you trying to accomplish is a huge factor, not just the distance. 6 days/wk x 5,000 yds of EZ lap swimming per day would produce a really good EZ lap swimmer.
Take a look at what J. Friel says about over training in the Triatheltes Training Bible and what Salo says in his Complete Conditioning for Swimming about training smart for the events you want to swim. At 63 i know i need more recovery time and that cycling, running, and weight work take a toll too and need to be figured into the recovery side of the equation. Friel (and i think Bernhardt too) points out that it is easy for most tri athletes to over train and suffer the consequences.
As i think you probably know, your body builds muscle when it recovers, not when it's working out and tired. Inadequate recovery will result in little or no gains. I think its more of question of how much recovery do you need to avoid over training and loss of training benefit, especially considering the tri training. Also, how you are training during the 30k/wk, and what are you trying to accomplish is a huge factor, not just the distance. 6 days/wk x 5,000 yds of EZ lap swimming per day would produce a really good EZ lap swimmer.
Take a look at what J. Friel says about over training in the Triatheltes Training Bible and what Salo says in his Complete Conditioning for Swimming about training smart for the events you want to swim. At 63 i know i need more recovery time and that cycling, running, and weight work take a toll too and need to be figured into the recovery side of the equation. Friel (and i think Bernhardt too) points out that it is easy for most tri athletes to over train and suffer the consequences.
Ya, I'm well acquainted with the overtraining issue. As I pointed out in one of the other posts, when I increase my biking and running, I decrease my swimming. This year I did more swimming and averaged 30,000 yd/wk. My long-term (27 yrs) averages are 18,000 yd/wk swim, 75 mi/wk bike, and 18.5 mi/wk run, plus about 1.5 hr/wk of strength/stretching, for total of about 14 hrs/wk average, on a 50 wk/yr basis, i.e. 2 weeks off each year. One thing I have noticed is that my very best efforts come after many weeks of feeling exhausted, then finally tapering and then BOOM, I can really move. Seems to work most of the time.
... One thing I have noticed is that my very best efforts come after many weeks of feeling exhausted, then finally tapering and then BOOM, I can really move. Seems to work most of the time.
Suppose that you were to insert some rests into that period of weeks of feeling exhausted so that you got the "boom" effect (or at least little boomlets) in practice every 10 days or so. Would you get an even bigger BOOM at taper time? I don't know, but I wonder about this kind of thing sometimes when I am feeling tired. Should I go swim another hard workout, or rest? Sometimes when I am tired and decide to do another hard workout I have a great workout, but this is not consisteltly true. Sometimes I have a terrible workout and I think to myself, "you would have been better off resting." I wish there were some way to know. This is only during periods of sustained hard training though. Usually like throws enough "unplanned rest days" (meetings etc.) into my schedule that scheduling rest days isn't an issue.
Suppose that you were to insert some rests into that period of weeks of feeling exhausted so that you got the "boom" effect (or at least little boomlets) in practice every 10 days or so. Would you get an even bigger BOOM at taper time? I don't know, but I wonder about this kind of thing sometimes when I am feeling tired. Should I go swim another hard workout, or rest? Sometimes when I am tired and decide to do another hard workout I have a great workout, but this is not consisteltly true. Sometimes I have a terrible workout and I think to myself, "you would have been better off resting." I wish there were some way to know. This is only during periods of sustained hard training though. Usually like throws enough "unplanned rest days" (meetings etc.) into my schedule that scheduling rest days isn't an issue.
Ya, it would be great to be able to know with some certainty, but such is swimming life. I've gone through periods when I just swam slowly 99.5% of the time for several months and then all of a sudden, I start to be able to get back to swimming at a stronger pace in just 2 or 3 weeks. Due to the fact that I can never seem to tell when this might happen, my conclusion is that I should just swim as much as I want to, without holding back and only resting when I really feel the need for it. You just can't be the fastest swimmer in the pool on every 100, every workout, for years on end.
When my work schedule cooperates, I train much the same as you, swim365. Ideally, I swim 6 days a week, ranging from 3500-7500 yards per day, with a good week resulting in about ~35,000 yards in the pool. Every now and then I'll have a rockstar week and hit up to 45,000 yards in the pool, but I'm much more likely to miss practices and swim lower yardage due to work than I am to get extra practices in.
When I do hit the full slate of practices, I'm really dragging for the first week or two, then I maintain what feels like about an 85% energy level from there on out. I'll be really sucky in practice towards the end of the first week/beginning of the second week, but from there I'll pick up speed again and have seen some big endurance gains at 90-95% effort during extended periods of heavy weeks. Not much in the way of speed gains during that time, but once I start tapering, the speed comes back full blast.
To sum it up, I wouldn't be worried about the yardage or the tiredness unless it starts to impact your workouts and your non-chlorinated life. I'm perfectly fine with my 85% energy level during heavy training periods, but if it ever gets lower than that for extended periods, I stop and reassess my training plan.
Ya, I'm well acquainted with the overtraining issue. As I pointed out in one of the other posts, when I increase my biking and running, I decrease my swimming. This year I did more swimming and averaged 30,000 yd/wk. My long-term (27 yrs) averages are 18,000 yd/wk swim, 75 mi/wk bike, and 18.5 mi/wk run, plus about 1.5 hr/wk of strength/stretching, for total of about 14 hrs/wk average, on a 50 wk/yr basis, i.e. 2 weeks off each year. One thing I have noticed is that my very best efforts come after many weeks of feeling exhausted, then finally tapering and then BOOM, I can really move. Seems to work most of the time.
I just started usms meets late 2011 and some sprint tri this past summer. My masters swimming has at best been erratic over the years and your average level of training has been new to me - i was going a little less than your average - about 12k to 15k in the pool, about 80-100 miles per week on the bike, about 10 mi per week of running (running is a WIP), and some weights for about an hour per week. I was probably about 2+ hours per day for 5-6 days per week. I lost a lot of weight, built muscle and conditioning, but was probably to tired to compete well without tapering for about 2 weeks, i think, cause i didn't really do that. With that "under my belt" in 2012, i'm wondering how it will go in 2013 and whether to back off a bit and allow more recovery. At 30k per week of swimming i would have no energy for cycling or running, but i think it would get me back to swimming decent times.
