Michael phelps is NOT greatest olympian ever b/c....
Former Member
This is not my opinion, but have heard this argued multiple times the past few days
He is swimming in a upper class white dominated sport. If swimming were more accessible to inner city black kids then he would have more competition and a deeper talent pool To compete against and he would not come close to his medal count.
Everyone can run, so usain bolt or carl Lewis are the best Olympians ever bc they accomplished what they did against the unquestionable best the world could possible throw at them
What say you?
The "everyone can run" comment can be flipped around. Since swimming is a skill (on top of the athletic component), a case could be made that it is inherently more difficult than running, thus making Phelps achievement more impressive. The smaller pool (pun intended) of competitors (compared to running) is due to that difficulty.
Former Member
I would say Usain Bolt is one of the most dominate Olympians of all time, but only in one or two events. No one can come close to touching him in the 100m dash. He is a bit less dominate in the 200m. Maybe unlikely, but Yohan Blake could beat him. I think Sun Yang is at least as dominate in the 1500m free as Bolt is in the 100m dash.
Although Phelps has owned the 100 and 200 fly, his victories haven't been as dominating as Sun and Bolt. I don't think greatest Olympian can be defined by success in one or two events. It must be defined in overall achievement, in which Phelps is head and shoulders above everyone else. Bolt would have to compete in and win more events to be the greatest Olympian.
Former Member
Sorry - My use of the term "Stupid Question" was rather rude. But I stand by my statement that the question cannot be answered in any objective manner without a definition of "Greatest Olympian". By extension, I personally dont believe that an objective definition is possible as cross-sport performance comparisons just dont seem viable. Earlier in this thread there was a bit about the runner and the swimmer doing a run/swim event. Adding in the gold medalist from Luge makes the comparison even more "interesting".
The OPs point about inner-city children not having access to swimming facilities and thus being under represented in the sport is not lost on me at all.
Is Michael Phelps the best olympian ever? Stupid question that cannot be factually answered.
I'm not sure that it's a stupid question and there are lots of facts, but the real issue (as you stated) is what criteria one would use to make a determination of the greatest olympian ever. It's been interesting to hear people's thoughts and have them weigh-in. Dismiss the medal count BS, but not the question.
Have we debunked the argument that swimming achievements are in someway not representative of the world's population? There are not many black athletes in the winter olympics; does that mean the winter olympics are somehow discredited? Discrediting swimming on this basis is shallow - ignoring the accomplishments of great athletes like Phelps, Biondi, Hall sr and jr, Spitz, Evans, Sanders, Farrell, Shollander, Weismuller etc. (and others im not thinking of), and it would require discrediting the entire winter olympics and many summer sports that do not have broad socioeconomic representation around the globe. A key olympic concept is to broaden representation, and it's working i think.
Clearly, medal count alone is not a good criteria. Beyond counting medals, the criteria become subjective, potentially biased, and opinion based, which is fine and the reason why there is no right or wrong answer. The question is still interesting to discuss and debate, especially if you are an athlete and enjoy the olympics.
Former Member
Who is the greatest olympian ever is an question that cannot be answered until the criteria for judging is established. Until then, its a subjective question where simple opinion rules the choice. How do you compare someone with 6 gold medals in Dressage with someone with 6 gold medals in greco-roman wrestling? Attempting to lessen the validity of one sport over the other is incorrect and elitist. The International Olympic Committee determines if a sport is Olympic or Not. They do not assign "weights" to individual sports. While I agree that inner-city children are less likely to engage in competitive swimming due to a lack of available facilities, drawing conclusions about the calibre of current swimmers based on this theory is not sound.
Is Michael Phelps the best olympian ever? Stupid question that cannot be factually answered. Does Michael Phelps hold the most olympic medals in current history? That question can be answered factually...
Interesting you would mention this subject, which the New York Times seems to have addressed a week ago (www.nytimes.com/.../why-olympic-records-are-broken-or-not.html). I though the author had an interesting take on it, and it sounds similar to the OP's points.
Here's a take on the same basic idea but looking only at the 100M Freestyle and the progression of Olympic best times over the history of the Olympics.
www.nytimes.com/.../racing-against-history.html
Slightly off topic, but the graphics are cool.
Former Member
It is an arguement that is un-winnable. How do you define best? In my opinion it is all subjective criteria. But put any of the great names up, Lewis, Phelps, Bolt etc and all I can say is....I would be happy to take any one of their records. They are all amazing and inspirational
Because of Oscar Pistorius...
www.nytimes.com/.../ap-oly-ath-pistorius-paralympics.html
Oscar Pistorius was definitely the most inspiring Olympian to me. :applaud: NBC did a nice job on a story about him. He was a great interview and seems to be a wonderful guy. Outside of swimming, he is my favorite Olympian! :cheerleader:
